From Reservist to Storyteller A chat with J Kenton Pierce

Come on, Pierce. Come on, Pierce. You know what I'm doing? Yeah. Hey, Pierce. Hey, ladies. You're cool backyard background. like that one. it's it's that or boring apartment that looks like there was an explosion at the bag lady factory. Are you ready to go? I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. All right. So, why don't we just start out and why don't you just tell us little about who you are and what your background is? background is the usual gifted student turned gross underachiever. let's see. military. was army. was in the Persian Gulf War reserves put active duty in Dahan. pretty much an REMF. Got back from that. Decided to go Air Force, figuring better food, less things blowing up, which didn't work out so well because of all the NBC training from the Gulf. when there was situation where they needed remains recovery at an aircraft crash site, the value jet in the Everglades. Pierce, you know all about NBC and decontamination. You'd want to help, don't you? Yeah. Not fun. But was Yeah, was in the military. was more the Radar O'Reilly type of guy than one of the tactical operators. So, and how long did you serve? And how long did you serve? was in the reserves for total of 10 years. active duty was mainly the Desert Shield, Desert Storm, plus few months. And then, after was air reserve, Homestead, we occasionally, it wasn't formal call up. They just had days available when it seemed like Castro was getting froggy. That was F-16 base, and their main job was to keep an eye on the Caribbean and on on that little island with the cigars. that bounced around lot of retail places and then lot more retail places. got into biotech. So started studying reccombinant DNA molecular biology that type of thing. worked at University of Pittsburgh in their research towers for while. Then one of the researchers decided he was going to go to NIH and didn't inform his staff and didn't renew his grant. So all of sudden they had 20 technicians with 5, 10, 15, 20 years experience looking for work and there am with like 7 months. after that so got laid off there and then went to first place to pick up the phone after started doing civil service tests and interviewing was local welfare office. where got paid more to run the mail machine than did to assemble or disassemble, reassemble made to order strands of DNA. That's kind of perverse. Not many years then and then years as phone operator. see, I've probably got enough college courses. Degree in business. Yay. How exciting. with hotel resort management minor. And if actually put all my credits together, could probably at least have an associates in biotech and bachelor's in fine arts because bounced around studying art, too. Best place was Bradlava, Slovak Republic. actually learned more in semester there about art than would than in two years of classes in the States. Turns out that art just isn't my medium, though. enjoyed it, but never would have been more than mediocre. And it's kind of funny because my instructors, the European instructors would note this is extremely illustrative. And there's nothing wrong with that. Although, just for your own edification, you should experiment some with things that are bit more painterly. Illustrating. It was all about storytelling. just didn't know that's what my real passion was. And could do the illustrative work if it was something that seized my mind. But for the time to tell the story, the cost benefit just didn't weigh out. And then couple decades after that, figured out like the that writing was my medium. Words were my medium. The art classes weren't wasted because learning how to analyze visuals, how to look at the lighting, the general atmospherics of scene, learning how to analyze that lets you learn how to translate that into words for the storytelling. So, it actually wasn't wasted time and effort. And when did you first discover that you really wanted to write? How did you get into that? played lot of pen and paper RPGs, everything from Dungeons and Dragons to Rifts, Dark Conspiracy, Vampire the Masquerade, all those things. And then as groups drifted apart, you know, people moved from city to city to coast to coast. started playing more MMOs. Got started on EverQuest, aka Everrack. Moved into City of Heroes when that came out. And found myself spending more time creating new characters and writing their little biography stories than did actually playing the game. must have like five pages of of alternate characters. that game folded. moved on to Star Trek Online because was pretty much raised on Triple Milk. Okay. mean, my mom's Treky, so we were watching the old series when was toddler. lot of my characters from City of Heroes jumped over to that and we had forum challenge in one of the fleets was in where they said instead of 300 bio, just write out your character's background. Make it page or two. And after about 5,000 words, realized, hey, this is what like doing. stumbled across Jim Butcher's live journal entries on genre writing about that time when decided I'm going to look up how to write books and that that peak under the hood he gave me at the process of writing genre flipped switch in my head. realized this is something can do now that I've seen someone go through the steps. can do that. So then started writing. That was 10, 15 years ago. And now stories are happening and I'm people are putting money in my pocket to tell them about my imaginary friends. And so you're you're part of the group the Alpha Merks. Can you tell us little about that? Okay. That is group. discovered them through the writer dojo with Larry Curry and Steve Diamond which is just chalk full of good writing advice and also bad writing advice which they clearly like this is the bad writing advice. I'll read it in funny voice so you know not to listen to it. very supportive community. the alpha mercs formed out of the members of the Facebook group for the writer dojo and that was also how learned about Rakonteer Press. Was it reconur? think it's Ron. Recontour. Reconte press. Yes. started submitting because had pile of stories. I'd had few things published here and there. one in Abyss and Apex and had couple published in the Granville Gazette's Bane Universe annex. And when that when that was shuttered with the the tragic when when we lost Eric Flint, was kind of desparing for market. figured I'd end up just having to make anthologies and self-publish them with earnings of which would allow me to buy grape at the next festival. but Rackonteer Press started taking my stories. think they they accepted something like half of everything submitted with few This is great story, but it's nowhere near the theme. Send it back when we're doing Space Marines. No, you can't give your Space Marines magic wands. didn't actually do that. It was haunted six gun. Very different. And so, can you tell us just little bit about your early days of just starting to submit stories and what that was like? boy. well, it was just the magazines before struck gold with Abyss and Apex and with Granville Gazette. It was, "Thank you for your submission. It does not meet our needs at this time." spent lot of time re was basically submitting to all the usual suspects. Analog Azimov, pretty much any pro pro market out there. did get some very, very good feedback from believe it's called Eldrich Roots and Cosmic Shores. They provided don't know if they're still in the market, but they provided very good feedback. And any type of feedback with rejection letter is is worth the time you took because it's pearl of great price when they say this is good story. It just doesn't fit what we need. Or we really like the idea, but this part of it, this bit in the middle or the ending, the execution didn't quite work. That's treasure. That is pure treasure. Or just, you know, even just there's nothing wrong with it. We just don't want it. That's also treasure because you don't have to keep second-guessing the story. So, you know, Eric Flint paid my rent few times, but really didn't get any traction with any of the other with the usual magazines and periodicals, and wasn't going to go the the Penny Press route because may as well just do the anthology and self-publish. You've been in you've been in ton of the Rack Press anthologies, which is really fun. You've been think 11 so far. You've been in All Will Burn, which is when first read your story. Alien Family Values, Space Cowboys, Road Tripping, our steampunk anthologies. You were in Steam Rising and Coffee Adventures. and another Space Cowboys. Okay. Yeah, you've been in multiple of of our couple of those. 563 Bookeroo and Fision ships. total of 11. Yes. And something that's unique about your stories is that you you always write from the same universe. Well, that's because have the brain that goes, "Yay, fluffy kitten." was that kid. started so many hob hobbies as kid, as teen, as an adult, and got distracted and never finished them. So decided when started writing and that these stories were coming together in one universe that until had the first series of novels done which is shy with the kiss for damically is that set of books that would keep everything in the same universe just so didn't get distracted and then once that's done once first four books are out then might experiment with some Plus, think I'm little OCD. will have historical quote or reference to some event. It might be proverb that some character quotes and go ahead and swat it. And that line will keep looping and looping and the scene it'll build into scene and it will give me no peace until write it. have have coyote story that at some point I'm going to have to to publish because again historical quote and the character, you know, the the little quote turns into character's dialogue and it won't go away. And have you ever tried to sleep at 3:00 a.m. when Coyote is telling you his story and demanding that you tell people how he helped the people who are who are clever but not too crazy build house that flies. So it's like, well, better write this out. of course, have have another series of novels that happened sort of the same way. that is the the series is the warlord of Greenline Town and the protagonist is wonder Aziz who is the militia captain that Shai meets in the first book. The militia captain that Shai gives migraines to by being shy and the setting of Green Line Town felt flat to me. Just the scenery wobbled, the people were kind of rubber. So, decided to write the encounter with Shai out from Raatt's point of view, just as thought exercise, and had fun with that. And then decided to take it back to the beginning of Captain Aziz's day, you know, from getting ready to go to work, doing the usual cop shop routine. All right, let's be careful. Let's you know, so how'd that go? Let's be careful out there. and just filled out her day because it just felt, you know, it's it was like side quest. had to at least complete that day and that turned into book or two, three, but they're parallel. They are complimentary series. You can read them independently. You can they're totally standalone because they each have their own issues, priorities, and problems with occasionally something that is shared problem they're on different sides of. But when you read if you read both of them in turn shy raatti shy raati it greatly enriches the overall story and it also raises the stakes because you get to see lot of things from point of view that shai can't see. You get to see what this there are lot of stakes that Shai doesn't know about and Shai is already playing for high stakes but she's only able to see third of the table. So it's it and I've had characters in Shai's book become strengthened by what wrote and how they developed in in Raatt's book as well as the world itself became more developed. So each even the short stories they all support the same story world and make it bigger, more lived in and roomy. And honestly it's as the setting gets more developed, it gets easier to ride in it. Even if I'm inventing new territories, new areas, new factions, and people, I'm not don't have to reinvent as many wheels. So, tell us about Kiss for Damocles. Okay. boy. Kiss for Damocles is technically space opera story. It's set on basically lost and aband well, not abandoned, lost colony. It's out of touch with everyone. They're on their own. And the colony has gone through an asteroid bombardment, an invasion, and Yellowstone type eruption courtesy of the asteroid bombardment. And these people, the survivors are all these small refugee communities trying to hold on through what they came to call the long night, the volcanic winter, and then the period of cooling that followed that. They aren't dancing naked around fires praying to sky people or ancient ones or an old candy machine. They know what they've lost. They know what was taken from them. And they still have high-tech space opera type technology, but they can only manufacture it on on workshop scale. On top of that, there's an ancient orbital artillery network that the invaders deployed when they showed up. and it's up there waiting for fire missions. And its last orders were to fire on any unauthorized transmissions, unauthorized vehicular traffic or counter liberation activity. And it's huge robotic network with supply ships, factory ships, which is how it can do repairs and replacements over the centuries. So shy people are trying to rebuild under the shadow of this thing. which makes things tricky because if it thinks you're being counter liberation, if it detects unauthorized vehicles, that must be colonial militia. Better drop rod on them. Radio transmissions up. That could be partisan activity. Time to drop rock. So, they are they are building quietly and carefully. And in Shai's time, they've just now moved beyond mere survival to starting to actually recover and rebuild the colonial civilization as whole. Shai is kind of like Laura Engles with sawoff shotgun and grenades if she was raised by Earl Harbinger and had Snakeliskin for her spirit animal. Yeah, she she starts out just wanting to help her people survive, scavenging, finding materials like alloys and such that they can either fab fabricate into what they call good cargo, just term for any equipment or goods. They just call it cargo or that they can trade for things they can make locally. Normally her homestead just trades in maple sugar and pelts. And try finds wreck buried in silt. pretty sizable ship. It was actually maintenance and engineering shuttle and the it's wrecked. It'll never fly again. But the wealth of of materials is going to turn her homestead into boom town, which is great for her homestead, not so great for the merchant princes who and rival communities who suddenly fear being left in the dust, or who simply want bigger slice of that cake. So, Shai's wonderful find brings her lots of trouble, and it complicates life. and then it complicates everyone else's life. Plus, she has tendency to routinely kick over apple carts. don't think lot of people actually realize what kind of spunky character that Shai is just based on what Pierce described because there is lot of survivalist instinct built into her, not just into her, but also into her family and into the community community that she lives in. Like it's frontier community. There are lot of different groups of characters that you're going to meet in this universe and they do make the story richer in my opinion with their presence. So yeah, and reason wanted you Sarah on here with us talking is because every time we get on the phone always hear you talking about how much you love Pierce's novel. And can you can you just sort of tell us what what you got out of it, what what you loved about the story and and PICE also just tell us, you know, how you came up with these things and why you why it was important to your story. Well, I'll start Pierce. when PICE first started submitting stories to some of our anthologies, had noticed pattern and noticed right away, of course, that they were all based on the same universe. And mean, yeah, that might annoy mentors and might make some of them complain that, you know, it doesn't fit the theme of the anthology in question that he's submitted it for, but he's still introducing you to aspects aspects of his universe that are actually important for the entire entire story as whole. And think that maintaining that kind of consistent consistency it it can be hard. I've seen you know lot of authors mean know lot of people give George Martin grief for not maintaining that same kind of consistency. And you contrast that with what Pierce has introduced into the wilds. And in my opinion, Martin could actually learn thing or three from Pierce with the kind of consistency that Pierce has maintained this entire time with his universe. So, that was the first thing noticed. also noticed that Pierce was great writer, like turn in relatively clean copy. Thank you very much. can't say that for quite few of our other authors, but hey, you know, learning is happening. So, that's always important. But between the clean copy and the consistency in the story universe, that actually made me super fan before even even realized what Pierce was actually doing with his work. And phrase it like that because Pierce and had actually started talking privately last year when had basically gotten dragged kicking and screaming into the entire illustration side of Reckress. Like had not actually seen that coming. It wasn't think it was actually last Fool's Hun when both Janna and Cedar basically sat down with me and told me, "Hey, so we noticed all the photos, all the images that you're putting up on your Facebook wall and we want to take advantage of that." They didn't say that. They didn't put it so bluntly. They just basically said, "We see your talent or your skill anyway and we want to put it to use." So, have this tendency to actually make images out of things that love and Pierce Pierce's story universe is something that love. So, actually like don't know why, but Shai is kind of like my spirit animal. So, sorry for getting emotional, but and sure as hell was not expecting to get emotional right now, but that girl speaks to me. So, when actually when found out that we were going to actually be publishing Pierce's novels, it's like, okay, sign me up. I'm all in for that. And when actually got to know Shai through kiss for Name Case and spoiler alert, have read book two. Book two is even better. Book two kicks butt. am I've been bugging Pierce like crazy for book three and know he's still revising it, but cannot wait to see what Shai does in book three. So, you know, the good things are coming. Honestly, with Shai's character, was little blurry about suddenly switching to Rattia Ziz, but just based on her interactions with Shai and kiss for damage, I'm actually getting excited now for the girl, the warlord of Green Line Town now because think it is good balance Like Shai as character represents the frontier. Like seriously. would say that Riat represents the established side of community that's survived and thrived and turned into an actual community. Like they had the bare bones of that community. So, it's going to be very interesting to me when actually start getting into Rav's story because see where Shai has gone and how her character is actually evolving. And it's going to be very interesting to see the flip side of that because think that's what Rati is. mean she's, you know, she's law enforcement, but on the ground she represents more than just law enforcement in my opinion. So that's my long-winded saying my my long-winded way of saying that this universe honestly blew my mind from the very beginning. And think it's actually great representation of excellent storytelling. So, thank you. Ravi is lot of fun to work with to it's good way of she's good way of rinsing my mind out after spend lot of time with Shai because Ravi came from lowerass bluecollar family, one bad payday away from the poor house. Well, in this case, the workhouses. Shai kind of takes over. don't don't literally think my characters are talking to me, but was one of those little kids who was always daydreaming, so can, you know, I'm imagining my character's commentary. wouldn't say that. How come you clowning on me like that? Maybe ought to res some lumps on your head. Whereas, if I'm doing some Zetti's dialogue, bit lazy, can just imagine her saying, "Well, do suppose that is adequate." Yeah. Yes. Perfectly adequate. but Shia has very distinctive voice and pattern. So, when work work on Ravi, I've got to totally shift gears mentally. Even though they might have similar values and morals, they're from different cultures, totally different backgrounds. Rovati, you know, grew up in basically one step from poor family, working class and went basically went into the militia because she was good at it and it was way to to put rice in the bowl. And over the years, she has developed into something of warrior scholar in the classical sense. She had been kind of fostered by the chief archavist who had taught her how to read other languages and had hoped to groom her into joining him at the archive. So he was always little put out that she went to stayed with the militia as profession. But Roat's perspective is bluecollar infantry, but the infantry officer who has all the books on the shelves, the histories, Plutarch, Caesar's diaries, etc., etc. So she's got she's got her rough edges but she is also the civilized soldier and she understands the value of civilization of history. Shai is not without an appreciation of history but Ravi has studied it because Isher would always give her homework. So her perspective is it's just several steps to the side from Shai. Her problems are more than do we have food enough to eat or not this year where Shai her big concern is do we have enough stores to last through the winter. Plus, Ravati is she's probably in her 30s, early 40s, has kid, has two co-hus or two husbands and co-wife. It's it's almost hinian marriage association. I'm not advocating that because am romantically incompetent. have yet to make one relationship work with one person. But in this culture and setting, it's something that made sense due to the population crunch, the genetic bottleneck. And just wanted to fit more characters into her little social circle because it's like can't do one or the Okay, put them all in there. And it's made actually some for some very good story dynamics in Rav's own series. Can interject really quick? Go. will say with Shai, think relate to her on guess the most basic level. the one thing that Paris has not yet mentioned is that, you know, Shai is basically still kid. Ravi is not. Ravody is an adult. And Shai has this bad habit wherever she goes. And you will see this in book two, and have no idea if it's gonna happen in book three, but it definitely happened in books. It definitely happened in book two, where the people that she interacts with end up saying, "Girl, you're giving me migraine." And so, cuz it's not just it's not just it's not just in book one who ends up saying that. There are lot of people who end up saying that about Chai, like not necessarily to her face. Sometimes when she's leaving the room, she overhears somebody saying in the background, my god, that girl just gave me migraine." And you know, some people find it hilarious and other people will be like, she's that kind of girl." So, think that's one reason why do relate to her lot. But am, like said, am excited about like tackling Ravi's story because it is good to bring another perspective in there and it's just going to be interesting and you know like said before we took our break, it's really big universe even if it's just like one world. So, think that's the thing appreciate about this universe the most. There are just so many facets to this universe that people have not even been introduced to yet. both from the side of the enemies who were responsible for the asteroid bombardment in the first place and from other people who basically survived the long night. So, mean, it's very rich history and think am very excited actually to see how other people react to that. So, and that's something I'd like to ask you about is you have such rich humongous mean it's not right to even call it world building because you have this whole universe. So, how how do you approach world building and what do you like to do to to create that culture and those worlds? And well, have made myself stick to one universe, but as had more ideas that were near future col colonization, military sci-fi, pure space opera, or shai's post-apocalyptic, realized I've got about 2,000-year timeline. So if it's subgenre of science fiction, can slot it in there somehow. So it it kind of built itself as had story idea and needed to figure out how to slot it in. So jengided the history to make it work. It's probably maybe on subconscious or could be purely accidental level. I've always loved shows, movies, books that had big livedin universe. Babylon 5, you had ancient races, ancient civilizations, you had all sorts of stuff that was going on outside the station that the people on the station had nothing to do with, but the news of that would affect events that affected life on the station. It was it wasn't just an isolated crew of Captain Hero and his friends. lot of the old Andre Norton books grew up reading, Forerunner, the Solar Queen stories, they always had these ancient civilizations and exotic nationalities and cultures among the stars. So, if it's big and lived in, you've got more to work with, but it just feels more engaging. and character-wise, mentioned was that daydreaming kid. grew up on farm and without getting into all the family drama and how much it sucks to be nerd in grade school, and yeah, ADD going on. So, was always bored and was always on the lonely side. So, was always daydreaming. In my head, was running around with Buck Rogers or piloting Colonial Viper or, you know, running from the Horta. The Horta scared me in the old Devil in the Dark episode. Always daydreaming stuff like that. And years later, realized the books that gravitated to, things like that read as kid and kept rereading. James Schmidz, the witches of Caris, The characters, mean, it had like the big universe, the big all the exotic worlds and that, but the main thing was these characters. They were people liked spending time with. And that is what has always brought me back to show, movie, series. if they're characters would enjoy spending time with. Miles Vorcosigan, pretty much the whole cast of Lois McMaster Bua's Varosigan saga. Might be hair raising, but they were imaginary friends. enjoyed spending time with Harry Dresden from Jim Butcher's Dresden Files. great story. story can be magnificently written, you know, just pure pure don't want to say poetry, but perfect pros, clever plots, subplots, subtle themes woven in amongst, but if don't like the character or if just whether they're flat or just annoying, couldn't care. That's what turned me off on the first George Martin book. As soon as liked character, he killed him. So, I'm like, well, don't need this. want to run around with my imaginary friends. And think that subconsciously at first anyway, I've done that with my own characters. for the own I've basically made up imaginary friends I'd enjoy hanging out with. Shy, not so much. Kathy would be more my type. And Zetti would be the one who would be really my type, but I'd be too shy and embarrassed to talk to her. Sarah, would you chime in here with with how you feel about the characters? Me? Yes. Shy, would probably ask to take me on hunting trip or scavenging trip. mostly because I've not really done either of those things and she's really good at both. Shy gets it from her mom. really like Zedi because now that know little bit more of Zed's background, Zedi is basically Shai's best friend. And that is the thing too about all of these characters. If you do go back and read all of these short stories that are scattered throughout those 11 anthologies that Pierce has had his stories accepted into, if you put them together, they are parts of the same puzzle. And don't think people necessarily realize that that how big that that's how big the puzzle actually is. But each one does represent different character. And some of these guys, some of these characters were actually on Hisperities when The Long Night actually started. Some of them are right beside Shai when she's off doing something stupid or they're trying to find her after she's done something stupid. some of them are you know people in disparities history and you cannot necessarily figure out where they actually fit into the puzzle until you actually read the story that they appear in. mean I'm find that more and more that's more and more common which is not necessarily bad thing. other things, other characters I'm not going to go into because spoiler alert, you know, but have picked Pierce's brain quite lot like offline because yeah, love these guys and there is there are threads connecting all of them even if those threads seem very tenuous and even if those threads seem very thin and are about ready to But they're there. So yeah, Shai Shai is pretty cool. Kathy, her sister, is also pretty cool. Eskinder, like the writers as group, which is what Zetti and Eskinder are part of. The people I'm talking about right now are all part of basically Shai's closest posi. and they they're actually pretty badass characters in my opinion, especially Zetti. but Eskinder is up there too and there are other writer characters that get introduced. actually not necessarily in kiss for dam case like there was story that think and don't remember Pierce she can probably refresh my memory where Zetti decides that she's going to be writer and becomes cadet petitioner and shoot don't remember off the top of my head but think he starts out as cadet petitioner and finally grad gets to the point where she is eligible for selection where the cadet petitioners who have passed all the tests including chemical interrogation while they're asleep might add are then they go to the selection and if they if they make it through that then they become full-fledged riders and at that point they also become eligible to learn the first level of secrets and mysteries of the first lodge, which is the writer's lodge. The writers come across as equal parts militant order, almost like knights with elements of secret society or or brotherhood. And they've got good reasons for that, but you have to read the stories for those. Shai and Zedi's dynamic is was pretty fun because Shai has issues. she's deeply troubled young lady. She, you know, she's she's tough. She's 15, but she is 15 in the way that frontiersman in the Illinois frontier was or the Kentucky or Pennsylvania frontier during the French and Indian War. But she had she had some rough issues. famine. There was famine when she was very young. she got stuck in the middle of firefight when she was 8 years old. and then just some other thing. It's just hard life and she has some issues and she knows it and Zedi is kind of her moral compass because she Zedi is tough and strong and everything Shai wants to be. And instead of being jealous, Shai wants to be someone that's worthy of Zed's friendship. Never mind that Zedi doesn't think that way. Zedi just you're my friend. But Shai does lot of her processing based on what would Zi think. And part of that's because of how young she is. Part of that's because she's got some damage that she will be dealing with over the books. Partly because of her friends and support network. And partially as she just matures, there seems to be reconciliation of past events that happen on the planet, like especially at the beginning of long night. and it's it's culminating in Shai's story basically. So, like there are aspects of other short stories that we published for for Pierce in other anthologies and there are bits and pieces in those stories that you're going to see actually come to fruition in this in this series, basically this novel series. And yeah, that's the thing too about somebody who likes spoilers. That's why like picking Pierce's brain about some of these things. Like have read book two already. Book two is better. will say will say that right now. can't wait for book three because suspect that it's going to be even better than book two. And you know, we're kind of like basically going up the wave into climax of, you know, the great the the perfect wave that you want to surf. So that's that think is one of the reasons why am so driven about think you closed this entire story. So this entire universe now the number of the short stories take place on the first day of what's called the long night the day of the invasion and the asteroid bombardment and the mega eruption and that's 600 700 years before Shai's born. So you'll in Shai's stories you'll see things like you references to events and such that are ancient history. there are characters in the there are characters who are living breathing people during the first days of that long night who become legends even in one case quasi religious icon by the time shai's people get to them and again they haven't fallen into primitivism but lot happens in 600 years especially when you're busy just trying to survive. there is one story that does take place centuries before Shai's world is even colonized. That is remember the Avalon and that's straight up Space Marines. Haha. That was in Space Marines 3. I'll probably have some books set in that early period right after the the long night based around Estabbon Ramirez and his family from Pride and Peppers and Bravado and Beans, but I've got to do Cheyenne Ravatti's books first. got to say too, love the way you have been able to grab these characters out of out of thin out of thin air and put together these images of them. And it's like you just you and you're so patient letting me tweak things, saying, "Nope, little more this, little less that." do appreciate your patience with that because you know how it is with us with us writer types. We generally have perfect image in our mind. And well, it would be good to play Zetti, but her ears are little too small or too large. Yeah. But yeah, you have done some amazing things with these. Sometimes can ring out an okay image, but the things you put together are just gorgeous. I'm looking forward to seeing you tackle Ravia Ziz and Galloway. Corporal Galloway. Yeah. there are definitely aspects of well characters have not even actually generated images about that. think you know which it's just good motivator. that's one reason why people like Shai and Zedi Zedi especially like there are lot of facets to Zedi think that don't necessarily come out all the way even in some of the images actually have generated and it it's just exciting you know sometimes it is good to put words into images like that because it just, you know, helps me solidify who they actually are. And it's actually process of I've kept on like, you know, I'm I'm probably going to be generating images for your universe as long as you're stuck with me, your copy editor, but I've been, you know, I'm I've been working on next novel cuz he's next and have started actually generating images for that. It's It's very very different from your universe and that's not bad thing at all, but it's been very interesting to just to see what the bot basically gives me. That's also that's good exercise for you because you've got to approach things from different angle, go for different atmosphere, different flavor. So it it it keeps you on your toes instead of getting into rut like Boris painting the same guy in the same heroine just in different costumes with different types of monsters. Yeah. Rodia Aziz and the Terror of 12 town which is Rod's first book the first book in the warlord of Greenline Town. It starts on the day that Shai arrives outside Green Line Town and it wraps up on the same day or the day after Shai's book wraps up. Like said, you can read these independently, but if you read Shai and then Ravati, you get to see lot of characters in new light and you get to see lot of the things that are going on behind the scenes that didn't seem to matter, but my, this changes everything. and I've also included epilogue for the bonus content. want to get feedback from John and company to see if it's meaty enough to count as bonus content for the full novel. problem I'm facing now is I've got some stories that haven't submitted anywhere that would pair up nicely with this or that novel. And these are usually like 10,000word short stories. practically guess that's novellet. But then I've got to wonder does this spoil too much? Does this hint something too much in some of these cases? So I'm going to have to get guidance from Jon and Dej on that and from from you. you know does this does this direct too much suspicion on character that shouldn't have suspicion yet? like to write things like to write where some things are in the open so when it pops up later when there's reveal later people go yeah didn't even see that makes sense though and also like to do some things where not where the reader says yeah saw that coming but where the reader looks at it and they're as they're reading hope this happens hope something like this happens Yes, they did the thing. He did the thing. Kind of like Lost Boys, the the movie Lost Boys, vampires to fight, and you always have like the old Hammer films. You've got little bottle, this dainty little bottle of holy water. You splash on the vampire and he goes, Now, Lost Boys, these kids run into the church and they're loading up their Super Soers with at the holy water font. And remember seeing this in batinfested old theater in Grove City, PA, and I'm jumping up and down going, "Yes, yes, this." Because nobody had put holy water in squirt gun before, but it makes perfect sense. Except in Fred Brown's world. What's that? Except in Fred Brown's universe. hadn't read those and now have to because Benalo said to would would take the last panda hostage to get critique or review from him. mean seriously, all due respect, sir, I'd like to know what you think of this or Lingling is going to have very bad day. And then he would say something in that gentle, polite manner of his and I'd feel very bad and let the panda go. But think the Frog Brothers would fit in really well in in that universe. What's that? think the Frog Brothers would fit in really well in France World. So I'm gonna I've got to read them. That's I'm going to have to dig those up. As if my TBR list isn't big enough as it is. Well, when started writing, decided to go back and study the stories that engaged me that kept rereading year after year after year because wanted to find out why they resonated with me. Why did this hook me? Why did only read this? Okay, that that book is one of the great science fiction books of all time. read it once and said, okay." Never occurred to me to read it again. others others there's some other books series Brian Daly's hand solo books repair man Jack lot of the the best Dean Arun especially watchers lightning just it's like have the urge to read that again just like when I'll say need to rewatch Person of Interest or Aliens and so I'd actually like to ask you about if it doesn't give away too many spoilers, your title, how what does that mean to your story? kiss for damicles. Just what is just what he's going to know he's been kissed. Shy and her people basically are reclaiming their world. They're reestablishing the the essentially the constitutional colonial government. They have domestic threats this they've got also got environmental threats including some that are that are hinted at in this book that turn out to be real problem in the second book. but the whole the whole thing is about Shai and her people reclaiming their place in the stars. And this isn't Shai finding silver bullet. It's not shy getting the magic mcguffin. It's just she's the girl in the right place at the right time to grab that lever or to place the fulcrum because this has been reclaiming their place in the stars has been an ongoing project. little bit of spoiler there, but it's not like this kid's going to come along and say, "Hey, why don't we figure out how to destroy the artillery network and take back space?" She's not the only one going to come up with that idea. but that that is the first four books. Kiss for Danicles, Stormjammer, Fury of Avalon, and Avalon is Risen. Those are the books that are basically Shy and her people getting their world settled down, organized, under control, free from the various factions that want to put their thumb on everyone and taking back their stars. Then there's another series after that where Shy goes full-blown space opera. have whole universe of fallen empires, lost civilizations, hostile Zenos, and the occasional unspeakable cosmic horror. And Shai is going to bring the ruckus to all of them. And so want to read you review that happened just today on Amazon. And I'm hoping you haven't seen it, but so Don Rin says, "Wonderful story. Looking forward to the next part of this story. Humanity struggling through and affirming hope. Needed to finish in one day that engaging." Wow. So want suspect I'm doing something right. want to ask you, what do you want your readers to take away from your story? And maybe maybe Sarah can can also talk about what she got out of it too. got have couple of main things other than the fact that want Scrooge McDuck treasure bath. want them to enjoy spending time with my characters. Fictional characters were pretty much my not always, but they were frequently my only best and reliable friends when was little kid. And if some somebody tells me that my imaginary friends brought them comfort and ease their loneliness, that's going to be big win for me. for overall themes, you'd mentioned hope. faded on sci-fi for while because there was so much stuff that was he dies, she dies, everybody dies. Haha, fooled you. I'm the clever writer and killed them all. don't need that. I'll watch the news from Walmart parking lot when need the the real life misery and nealism. So you know even dragged some of my characters through awful places. took Shai's world and threw stones at it until broke it. But they are about hope. They are about there is light at the end of the tunnel. You just got to get keep getting up and going towards it and or you know working working with your with your people with your community to rebuild to to shield those embers of civilization and eventually make it into bonfire again. And it's not overnight. Some characters all they all they get at the end of their story is the knowledge that someone down that somewhere down the road people will be able to continue this long march. And then I've got other well Shai's story big spoiler Shai's going to make it into space because otherwise couldn't write space opera about her. but yeah it it is about people deciding to rebuild to make things better to to maintain the freedom of their people against all comers. You know Maslo Maslov's whole hierarchy of needs. We're making it easier to survive. We're making it easier or we're making the the better things the higher things. can't remember the hierarchy. You've got survival. You then you've got more of your creature comforts. Ultimately self-actualization. These stories for if you put them all together, you're they're going to be very steps in that. We survived. We made it easier for our kids to survive. And now, well, we've made life better and we've made it even and and our kids are going to have more than we did. And then eventually they're they're going to be back. We're back, baby. We're putting the empire back together. Sarah, what do you what did you feel like you took away from it? would say that. Okay, so you've read all of Korea's stuff, right? Like the Son of the Black Sword series and the Monster Hunter series. I've only read the MHI stuff. fantasy is is hard hook for me because kind of burned out on it. kind of can't blame you. would say that Son of the Black Sword is actually worth your time. expect it would be because the man is fiend with typewriter. Yeah. I'm only asking because think outside of Larry, John Ringo is another Bane author basically who has written books that connect to like not everybody will relate to, you know, Black Tide Rising, which is his zombie apocalypse series. love those. love those too. And think and that is what I'm getting to here. Basically, there are only there are very few authors who write characters who can actually connect to. Pierce is one of them. Larry is one of them. Ringo is another. So, it it's it don't know how to how to say it eloquently, guess, but there are very few authors whose work has that much staying power because of their characters like and because they can tell well-crafted story and people can relate to it. People will not be able to actually put the book down until they get through that story. That's pretty much my takeaway when it comes to Pierce's books because it is really big universe that he plays in. But if you read all of his work, not just kiss for Damoth Face, then you'll find that there the the puzzle is being assembled in the background. Even if it's not necessarily in your face or if it's even if even if it is not directly referenced in kiss for damage, but it's there. So, if that kind of world building is something that interests you or is something that you enjoy in an author's work, then you're going to love these the series. you're going to love the characters. like know Pierce has fielded some complaints about Shai being, you know, like another girl boss or I've seen one one another, you know, teenage girl who's, you know, doing all the things that teenage girl would do. But if you go past that and you actually connect her to the rest of the universe that he's built, then it is way more than just girl boss doing her thing. It is way more. it is space opera. it's just that right now you're starting from basically the beginning of Shai story. Although slight digression, there is story that does feature Shai when she first meet Teddy and one of Pierce's short stories that we published. That's your own marching pace in the road tripping. Yeah. So, all I'm gonna say is that, you know, if you look hard enough, and lot of the the short stories, any of the short stories that have been published in the anthologies, lot of them have spoilers about someone's origin. yeah, number of the short stories will reveal things about characters that Shai does not know. So, but they don't reveal everything about that character or about that faction. So, for people that have gone and read the short stories in the anthologies, they might recognize something in the novel and hope what I'm hoping for is that for those readers, it'll be wait till Shai finds out. Oo, wait for it. That's what I'm hoping for. And not all the secrets are out there. Certainly not the big endgame secrets and things like that. So, you'll know more about certain character or certain faction than Shai does, but it doesn't really they aren't things that really affect Shai's journey and the the events that she kicks off or the events that she settles. You're just mean if Robi basically makes the entire story richer because she's offering another point of view, these other characters are basically doing the same thing. They're serving the same function. mean, yeah, we haven't talked about the imps. And outside of Shai and her immediate circle, the Ms think are actually one of my favorite groups of characters in this universe. And they are very entertaining but also they they give you very good idea of what honor actually means in this universe. And that's saying lot because there are lot of characters she could basically do the same thing very easily. The imps with their presence they do that in spades and they turn it up to 11 in so many ways. and it does it does affect Shai and her and her family and the role that they play in the the moving past survival modes into rebuilding the world. So, love that about this universe. But going back to what Pierce was saying about all the short stories that we've published so far and all the different characters and all the different characters that we have met in his short stories and in kiss for dam case, you're going to mean you're going to be getting introduced to more characters in book two and you're going to see the way certain factions act around Chai and the way that they interact in the society of Hisperities Colony. And really, that's that's the thing that actually love the most about this universe. You it does have lot of staying power if you if you love storytelling and world building on this level. So that's that's probably the easiest way to put it because mean Pierce, don't think you know this, but I've been think I've actually reread book two several times now. And I've read Pride and Peppers, which is honestly the story that actually kicks off the entire That was my first rack press. mean it kicks off the entire thing. And then there's Bravado, Bravado and Beans. Bravado and Beans basically basically the sequel to Pride and Peppers. And it it just does stellar job. mean there there's nolla that's in the works that we think we are going to publish eventually. Yeah, we are probably we're hopefully going to do Shai Ravi and then the novela it's titled An Apple for the Legion. Yeah, it takes place on the first day of the long night and it's from the point of view of one of the genetically engineered, enhanced, optimized mutual prosperity shock troopers, the best of their best, the tip of the spear. And she is very earnest, diligent young officer who honestly believes we're liberating these people from the corrupt and decadent Teran Commonwealth. you meet her in Pride and Peppers. You see her again in Babado and Beans. And that is the story of how this girl became the young woman that Estabbon Ramirez meets and Estabbon is in Pride and Peppers as well. Actually, think that story is pretty much from the point of view of Estabbon the entire way. Yes. Yes, it is. And the novela, it's about 30,000 words and it is from the point of view of this mutual prosperity officer. And it's honestly very interesting because, you know, this entire time we're basically seeing colony world of the Teran Commonwealth, which is what Hisperities is, and you're seeing it basically survive the Long Night and rebuild out of the Long Night. But the long night itself it's it's mean had to read the novelas to figure out well you know we can say that the these people are all you know like super soldiers and whatnot or whatever they're still as human as like say shi and that makes them relatable even if they are genetically engineered super soldiers. So, it's something to definitely keep in mind whenever you read any of these stories. So, it it's also kind of study of what happens when reality and indoctrination don't match up when someone is out in the world long enough to see more and more inconsistencies between what essentially the party says and what they see on the street. So, it's had to crawl into lot of ugly heads to construct the indoctrination program that these legionaries, these Jeanjacks go through. had to rumage around in the head of the people that put together Ma's Red Guard, the Hitler Youth, Russia's young pioneers and young Octoberists, as well as lot of cult indoctrination and how they maintain the the grip on the heart and mind of people. And thing is when soldiers are out in the field they start to see things differently or they start to see more reality than what the party let tells them is the truth. So Carr has she's got long journey and she but she is true believer in the ideals of the mutual prosperity. It's when the ideals and the ideology come into conflict that life gets interesting. So that's that's what I'm looking forward to people reading because if they like Pride and Peppers and if they liked Bravado and beans, then think they'll really enjoy that one. And it also plays part in it plays big part in some of the cultures and civilizations of Shai's time. There are elements of that story that become major in Shai's second book and especially in the third book. don't throw anything away. you know, lot of history never goes away, even if there's dust on it and people have forgotten about it. And will say, just building on top of that of Pierce's point, there is lot of freaking history in Sheen Rush. mean, didn't automatically connect the story from Space Marines 3 into that. figured, you know, well, eventually it's going to happen one way or the other. didn't realize it was actually taking place in the past, but that's what mean when say that there's lot of history. Like, you're looking at short stories that took place 600 years before what Shane, what Chai is going through and to the present day. And they still keep lot of their traditions as colony world of the turn Commonwealth. That is kind of mind-blowing if you think about it because you you could expect like colony world that's like cut off from the rest of the empire to just fall apart and go completely nuts and it doesn't. Yeah. Well, nobody's nobody's burned down the Library of Alexandria here. Yeah. the I've got factions who are specifically dedicated to keeping the history and values alive to making sure people don't forget they're from civilization. Yeah. And don't forget those values and they're not going to let it go away. Yeah. And there's there are lot of traditions that are built into that history that you just see in everyday life here. And saw that in book two lot which thought was better touching in and of itself because it's like well 10,000 more years. You don't really know what that actually means until you actually look at the background world building in history that pierces into it. Yeah. 10,000 years into Japanese. Yeah. It's just crazy, you know. And you said there were several points you wanted to make before we wrapped up. What were those? have no idea. Are there any questions you had wanted to ask that we haven't hit? there are so many. of course I've got my standard formula right here. but think we've covered so much. something that something that draws me to writing actually my favorite part and why why do it is the surprise that comes in the process. You know, you got you got this the plot, you know, you got the plot plotted out and and then you start writing and then this thing comes out of nowhere and it's perfect and it just falls in. What are those some of those moments for you? What what sort of surprises in your process that you have? There are there are really too many to nail down any to to really for me to point at this or that one because it's been an ongoing cascade of these. might have an endgame, final scene that I'm writing towards, but will and I'll create the most devious and devilish plot complications and traps for Shai and Zedi. And they just kind of he point at them and giggle and walk around them and go off into get into way more trouble than could have invented for them. in way the the world building has had some cascades where things just coincidence brought number of things together that gave me the pieces to fit it together. Hisperities colony Hisper the island the Hisperities were nymphs who took care of Hara's garden or the was called the island of the Hisperities and that's where her golden apples grew. Avalon Mhane Ablock was the aisle of apples and he that that goes you you'll find that in both the Roman and in some of the Gaelic some variety of island of apples and of course you've got the apples are don't quite want to say recurring theme. But one of the big produce exports of Hisperities that they were so proud of were the Hisperities Golden apples that were engineered to be able to grow on planet with near pleioene climate and long polar nights and the the long white nights of summer as well. and it just it all sort of came together and it provides different layers of meaning depending on what you're interested in and what you pay attention to. So that was it was lot of fun as realized looked at the pieces had and saw how could fit them together. Likewise, the long night it's not just the volcanic winter. It became the the period of essentially interregnum that followed on Hisperities colony. As you've got these scattered communities and then as survival immediate survival becomes less of problem, people have more time on their hands to get ambitious and to look beyond their own borders. And ultimately the long night will also refer to the period of interregnum that is in that neighborhood of the galaxy itself after the prosperity and the the mutual prosperity in the Terran commonwealth basically went down with their hands around each other's throats. So it's there there are several layers of long night and that was that was kind of fun sliding those pieces around. As for for events in the stories, just follow these guys and write up the incident reports and try to figure out how to explain it to the chief there. I've got fun characters to work with to to daydream about and they do all the heavy lifting for me at some point. Jim Butcher said that his characters work for him and don't have that level of mastery. In fact, tried to write this as third person originally with little you know, little interlude where you show what the character is thinking for few lines or paragraph. But Shai's voice was so strong that she kind of shoved me out of the chair and said, "Just just just go over there. I'll do it. You're not doing it right." do hope that people can see how these stories relate to each other and how they sometimes they inter sometimes they interlock, sometimes they merely influence, but want to give people view of big wide story universe. And as mentioned before, want to give them characters whose company they can enjoy, who they can take comfort in and and be inspired maybe by some of their achievements, by the by how they don't quit. That's that's one thing you'll find in these not quitter in any of these stories. And that's why they're heroes. They weren't chosen by the alignment of the stars, by great Muppety Guju giving them birthark. They're chosen because they chose to keep getting back up or they chose to put it on the line to to help their neighbors, to help their community, or just maintain their civilization. The articles of high law, which are pretty much modeled on our constitution, the traditions and values that held the Terran Commonwealth together. It's not just if we'll survive, it's what kind of people we'll be if we survive. from Pride and Peppers. So, it's it's been lot of fun. can't not write. The stories would give me no peace if didn't write them. And I'm so thrilled with Rick on Ruckon. the press law dogs posi because not only are you guys getting my stories out there, but the help, the feedback, and the encouragement. like Sarah, your artwork, every time you put up one of the characters or scenes, just like do happy nerd squee or when when any of you just point out something some element in some story you liked. It just makes my day. It's one thing to have your mom say, "Yes, your baby is very pretty. It's the prettiest baby ever." But when as professionals in the field or just readers who don't owe it to me to say your baby's pretty, that means lot. It it's it's encouraging. Very very encouraging. will say like Pierce and have been talking on semi-regular basis since we we took them on for one of our novels being published this year. will say it's been it's been hilariously fun where like some of the stories did not remember reading before or some of the other aspects that vaguely recalled in one of the short stories and then had to go back and actually read them. that has been fun. That it's been fun actually reading scene from like say book two and then will go to Pearson and be like what what is he exactly or what who are his parents? And that is question actually literally asked about character that you're gonna see in book see more of see more of in book two. So, mean, think one Yeah. I'm glad Pierce indulges me with that kind of information because, he does know that love my spoilers and don't really mean, I'm not obviously I'm not going to be blabbing about some of the stuff that's coming up after, you know, kiss for Damas finishes and after Rivat's fresh book comes out cuz it just gets more exciting and to me it just builds up that excite. excitement to see what the conclusion is actually going to be. so mean all I'm going to say is that parachute don't be surprised if hit you with like list of questions tomorrow cuz this conversation that we've been having tonight has been even more questioned why to oblige and now like dee likes to absorb the story as it comes to him. Yeah. And it's actually good to have people on both ends of this because you're able to say you you have the spoilers, the long-term spoilers too in some cases. So if were to if wasn't approaching them in manner that Joe Reer would find plausible, you can say, "Well, this seems little bit of jump here and can adjust it." Yeah. because you know where it's going. You're like, "Isn't Albuquerque that way?" Yeah. Whereas with Die with the the people and the staff that want to take the story as it comes, they're able to say, "Wait, this felt jarring." So, I'm I'm able to get with variety of personalities looking at these, I'm able to get the best of both worlds. And that is also incredibly valuable. Yeah. And of course then there's the art that Cedar does too. That's always treasure. Yeah. So yeah, there, like said, I've mentioned the amps, I've mentioned the writers, we have not even talked about the gentle walkers yet, but that think can be left to that would be one that's for one that's one for down the road. Yeah. the imps, the imps are lot of fun. CJ Sherah wrote series. only got partway through it because just really wasn't interested enough in the main character to follow him around, but he pointed out that aliens don't necessarily have the same emotional and neurolog not neurological, the chemicals. serotonin, all those stuff like that. Yeah. They they they just aren't necessarily wired the same way that people are. They might have the same reactions. fear, anger, affection, whatever, but they're not not necessarily processed the same way. And that can be physiological as well as cultural. Imps are social pack hunters. They evolved on world that had they pretty ugly food chain that they had to climb to the top of, which is why they've got claws and venom dispensers at both ends, the fangs and the stinger tail. they're incredibly gregarious and that's not just because of the treaties and such and honor. It's just in their nature. The problem is they don't have lot of room for shades of gray. They tend to think that people deserve the government they've got. So if you let your government be treacherous oathbreakers who enslave people, you you've earned what's coming. Not that it wouldn't hurt kids. like the the the fay of old. Well, it depends on the legend. they cherish children and there's nothing that's more dishonorable than hurting or enslaving child. So, they might fall on community and put all the adults to the sword, but they'll carefully take care of all the little orphans they made. that's the Dunko Station event that's mentioned. And of course, any prisoners, anyone that was under duress, you they're not harmed. But the way they figured it wasn't just the the government of Duno Station, it's everyone that went along with it. That's just how they process things. You're all one pack. Kind of. that might have been influenced by Footfall by Nan and Pornell, how the elephant aliens looked at things. So, that's going to be actually kind of tricky because Shai's going to have to figure out how to rein them in on occasion. All right, so Kiss for Damles is out now. And when is when is the second installment going to come out? I've got I've got each character's first two manuscripts done, barring some clean up on Ravatti's second book, and know where I'm going with the others, and I've never written to deadline before. That's never been an issue for me other than trying to make submission call. But with all the anthology, all the short stories did for all the anthologies, I'm I'm pretty sure I've gotten better and faster at writing. just don't want to put readers in position where I'm like, okay. Well, book three is going to be in another couple of years. I'm not gonna do George Martin because know where I'm going and I'm not letting myself get sucked into any side projects, but we're we're hoping every three months or so we'll have another book in the series out." Yeah, might hit bump in the road. might get hit by truck tomorrow. attacked by swarm of hungry mircats. Who knows? But do want to keep things on track because don't want the readers to lose interest. don't want to take them for granted either. can remember there was sci-fi series that was really into. Then the author just didn't write anything related to it for like 30 years. And was like, I'm gonna come back and finish that now." And I'm like, "Finish what?" Whatever. No. Don't want to be that guy. don't think that's going to happen. Not with Janna. Yep. And appreciate I'm sure that she will be, you know, if there's something happens where require flexibility, she'll work with me on it. You know, like some life issues or something. that's something else the press is really good with. I've seen how they're treating some writers who have had some health issues and it's just stand up do right crew and love the hell out of that. It just it it's it's nice seeing people doing the right thing instead of okay commodity, you're on the back shelf now. Yes. And we're so happy to know that that author is actually doing very well now. Yeah. Very worried at the beginning of the year. So that's so could have worked out better. So Jay Kenton Pierce, author author of Kiss for Damocles. This is our third novel ever to put out. You're the first of our first novelists of the year. Sarah Clero, you are his copy editor and probably number one fan. So, wanted to bring you in just because and the art the character most of the stuff that people are seeing that have been posted on Substack, Facebook or with the little blurbs, character blurbs or whatever. Most of those are Sarah's artwork and just she's she's really grabbed this world and is is giving it visible form and that's treat. Yeah, it's fun. And it it does like actually seeing some aspect of it with one's eyes, you know, it it actually helps crystallize who that character is. So, it's cool. Well, thank you so much. go ahead. Sorry. think the most one of the most interesting you did an image of Viven, member of the the gentle walkers, quas religious order, and put in little section of Shai's narration where she describes the woman and the impression she made between Sarah's image and that little few lines of from the book describing how she perceived this character that generated ated more feedback than most of the other little blurs and images and such. People really between my words and her art, people really grabbed that character that Viven caught their attention. Yeah. Well, another note with Avalon and all the mythology, Viven, according to some stories, was the name of the lady in the lake. Mythology for you? like they're like sprinkling things. You will find my stuff riddled with Easter eggs and some of them are just Easter eggs and some of them are in their own odd little way quite relevant. And I'm going to leave you all to figure out which is which give away all the goodies. No, I'll just bug bug you about it like after you. Yeah, you do. But to Joe Reer, all due respect, some of this you got to figure out for yourself. And how can they bug you on Substack? What's your Substack handle? got to look that up. think it's Tales from the Long Night. Okay. Or Jay Kenton Pierce's Substack. have You'll have to look it up. I'm sorry. We'll link it on the page. The Substack keep strictly to writing, storytelling in my story verse. I'm on Facebook and that's political as heck. figure that someday if became famous, people from the far left, the far right are going to get together to burn me an effigy. Even when it's not my birthday. So if you Facebook, unless you want politics and argumentation, don't bother with it. if you want to stick to the story verse, story world, that's going to be that's what I'm keeping the Substack focused on. the Facebook, I've been political and arguing on that for 15, 20 years. So, it's not like can exactly scrub it out. am trying to be little less uptight on Facebook, though. Actually, silly me, have your your Substack open right now. It is jkintonpierce.substack.com. So that's how readers can get in touch with you and bother you with all the questions that Sarah privately bothers you with. They can opine on my various entries. I've got the first mess of entries was lot of it was introductions to the various short stories in the anthology you're in. Some are general world building like historical bits and such. There's also timeline of stories. Yeah. So they can weigh in on the appropriate article or note. just you as long as nobody wants to go political there. I'm not going to argue political theory on that. That's what Facebook is for. And really don't have the time or energy to argue on Facebook as much as used to because I've got books to write. And if don't want to be put in chain to radiator and fed nothing but cheese sandwiches and abuse, better need to keep the writing on track to keep up to Jonah's Jonah's schedule. All right. All right. Well, Jay Kenton Pierce, author of Kiss for Damocles and many, many more to come. Thank you so much for talking about little bit about your universe tonight. Sarah Clifro, thank you for joining us. And thanks for having us. Let's do this again sometime. This was fun. I've had great time. really appreciate this, ladies. Hope you have great evening now. Right. Bye. Bye.