01 2026 Modern Challenges tothe Spiritual Life Interview withThe Very Rev Michael Nasser

And I'd like to welcome all of you, our viewers, this evening. Thank you for watching. If you're enjoying this program, please subscribe to the channel and like and share this video so that in your own little way, you can become an apostle for Jesus. Today's guest on the show, consider him very good friend of mine, mentor, and one of my sponsors to the holy priesthood. he was also my boss. first met Father Michael Nasser in 2002 where worked as counselor at the Antiochan village where Father Michael was the camp director. That was about 24 years ago. Wow. Father Michael is originally from California, worked as youth director and camp counselor for many years before ordination. He studied at St. Vladimir's and Holy Cross seminaries. He was parish priest for short time in New Kensington, Pennsylvania before being assigned to the Antiochin village as camp director for 10 years. He then served as mission priest in Tijuana, Mexico and then the first pastor of Holy Apostles Mission in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Most recently, he was pastor of St. Nicholas Orthodox Church in Grand Rapids for about 10 years. And now, Father Michael is the director of spiritual formation at St. Vladimir Seminary where he is responsible for the formation of the students who will one day pastor the parishes of the Orthodox churches of North America and beyond. Father Michael, it's my honor to host you on this show and know you have very busy schedule that you've fit us in right before class that you're teaching this evening. So, we're going to jump right in. Welcome. Thank you, Abuna. Nice to be with you. Thank you. I'm going to ask you our first question right off the bat. Although guess right before that, want to point out that when met you 24 years ago, looked lot different and you look almost the same. So someone would look at you and think the priesthood's easy. So maybe you're going to you're going to really fill us in here. The topic is modern challenges to the spiritual life. and this is an interesting topic because we know from studying theology that there are no new sins under the sun but there are new challenges. So tell us little bit about that. Well thank you and it's joy for me to be with you and to have the chance to speak with the folks that are that are watching this. It it's one of my favorite topics because as you said there aren't new sins. There is no new spirituality. The Orthodox Church is eternal. It's not even linked to any one particular time of our history. However, life has changed in significant ways in the last let's say couple hundred years, but especially would say the last 50. if we had more time, lot of things want to talk about tonight in the next, you know, half hour hour. normally spent two days, so I'm gly trying to condense everything down, but but things have changed dramatically. We went from really an agricultural society only few hundred years ago where very relatively few people lived in cities to where very very quickly historically speaking people moved to cities and then very quickly technology started taking over. It's only been the digital age is just decades old. but even the the the time of industrial revolution, that's only couple hundred years. So much has changed in terms of how we live. Again, the faith doesn't change, but the conditions that we live in have changed dramatically. I'll give you one example. 200 years ago, when the sun went down, you know what people did? They went to sleep. Why? Because most people couldn't afford whole lot of oil or candles. and you had worked all day from the rising of the sun and so you slept the whole night because there was nothing else to do. remember in my lifetime being child and young teenager and staying up late to watch TV and remembering how at midnight all the channels turned off. They played think the pledge of alle or some patriotic song and then everything went to static. It's not that way anymore. in the digital age, content comes at us 24 hours day, seven days week, non-stop. And then came these wonderful little devices which have so many blessings, but they brought lot of challenges that again don't think we think about. So some of the things want to talk about we'll get into the specifics tonight are how all these change have affected us because at the same time that the conditions of life have changed our our spirituality has not changed. Jesus said to us in the gospel of of St. John that he came here that we would have life and have it abundantly. And then he says just seven chapters later in the 17th chapter of that gospel by the way happy feast day all these named after the apostle the evangelist John the theologian whose gospel I'm quoting happy feast day to you. He says and this is eternal life that they know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent. So knowing God has always been our spirituality. It's at the core of of all of our prayer and our fasting, our almsgiving, our repentance. It's knowing Christ as revealed to us in the church by the Holy Spirit sent to us from the father and to understand that encounter to experience that encounter. The church has always said what do we need? We need peace. We need calm. We need quiet. Of course, in times of crisis, we can call on on God. But in that dayto-day growth in God, it's it's an ordered life. You go to monastery and you see how clean and orderly and beautiful everything is and things move at very what would call human pace. Compare that to the life of most of us these days. We live frenetic lives, running around, complex schedules, news coming to us, not just from our neighborhood where we may have heard that for the last, you know, thousands of years. You hear what's going on with the people down the road. Now, we hear the worst things happening to everybody on the planet. And we think that that's normal and we think that we can handle it. And think it has really really it's big challenge for our spirituality. So that's sort of the overall view of what want to talk about tonight. So you're saying pretty much that technology over the past 100, especially the past 50 years, either directly or indirectly has affected our spirituality in way that's never been affected before. Well, would say nothing again, nothing is new. Like you said at the top, nothing is new. But the kinds of lives we live have only been experienced if to some degree they have by would say the super rich or royalty. I'll give you one very plain example that has no digital technology. When we get up in the morning and we get ourselves ready for the day, we typically will go for shower whatever and before we get we adjust that water. We get it just the temper we temperature we like. It's not too cold. It's not too hot. It's exactly what we want. That's not the kind of technology you think about technology. But from that experience of how we go through our day, there is one question that we are asking ourselves, think are asking ourselves all day long. We probably ask it non-verbbally hundreds if not thousands of times every day. And that question is, what do we want? And then we get it. again that's the super rich the royal have always lived that kind of life very very small slice of people now we live that way and so there's so many layers to the challenges that layer would say is layer of of having just an abundance of of most things that we want but then all that happening again in very complex world with lots of noise very fast-paced and you think about the wisdom of the fathers and they teach prayer to to sit or to stand quietly before an icon with simple flame shining and illuminating the icon in the quietness of that space encountering God. It's not that it can't be done. In fact, want to make sure you understand from the beginning. I'm going to give us some very practical things we can do and think that we have to do these days because the environment has become so challenging to us spiritually. So we hear Christ tell the lawyer that it's easier for camel to enter the eye of needle through the eye of needle whatever that means. know that there are different interpretations than for rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven which it sounds like we're all the rich man at this point because we're all so spoiled by modern conveniences. But the next part of that is also very important. our Lord says right after he says that it's impossible he says that all things are possible to God. And so I'm glad that there's some light at the end of the tunnel here and you're going to give us something positive. Always there's hope. But that's great that's great passage to think about because what is it about wealth? mean we could talk just tonight or just sometime only about wealth alone. But one of the things that wealth gives us is choices and the ability to get what we want. that kind of an ability, that kind of mindset where if want something and know pretty much for most things can get it and it's not just the super wealthy. don't know people are probably watching this from different parts of the world, but here in America, the number one public health crisis for those in the poverty income level are issues associated with obesity. Now, there's lot of reasons. It's complex issue. Access to good and healthy foods is an important issue. don't want to oversimplify it. But to realize that even the poorest among us have an abundance Right? Not that there aren't times that we struggle. People do struggle. There's real poverty. But among even the majority of those in poverty, for them there's abundance. Let alone those of us who are middle middle income or middle upper income. it just we have lot of things offered to us. And can just tell you from my life, know that struggle more spiritually when don't or when imagine that don't need God. And we might think, well, who doesn't need God? Of course, we need God. But when we can answer our own needs so often and so frequently and so fully, it becomes harder. Which is why, by the way, here we are in this beautiful posal season, right? Christ has risen on me to everybody out there. That beautiful proclamation. How did we get to that joy? We went through the difficulty, excuse me, the self-imposed difficulty of great lent where we said if we want to have the spiritual eyes to see the resurrection, we have to simplify. We have to reduce. We have to eliminate. We have to abstain. What is all that? That's all of us saying to all of this excess that that excess can get in our way of communing with God. And so Lent is perfect example of how the church guides us no matter what our conditions are. The church always gives us the remedies. And think the remedies are still the same remedies. think they've just become in some sense more urgently needed because the current of living in this world for most people does not bring them naturally to God. It brings them naturally to all kinds of distractions, false illusions. self-fululfillment, right? There's just so many ways that that we have to be intentional to find God in our world today. That's beautiful. And it kind of makes me think about the first three centuries of the church were perhaps the most difficult time for Christians to live followed maybe by the communist era, by Ottoman occupation. Those were the most difficult times for Christians. However, it produced the most saints. And so, now maybe there's like hidden, attack on Christians in America because it's so easy to be Christian in America. And so, we don't even see the demons attacking, right? Even in the Middle East today. So in Lebanon right now in Palestine and Syria and in other places in North Africa where Christianity has always been people are currently dying simply for being Christians. we're seeing lot of that in Syria right now again. We saw it in Palestine. and those people seem to be the most faithful. So, you know, they have these hard lives right now and because of those difficult lives, they're closer to God. Maybe they see more clearly that they need God. but here we are very comfortable in our situations and maybe we're forgetting God. So, what do you think? you you mentioned great Lent and how we had those self-imposed like fasts and hopefully not completely self-imposed. Yeah, it's of course by our will, but hopefully we got them from our spiritual fathers, not just doing what we want to do cuz that's part of the obedience. It's part of it. but you know, especially as Antiocians, think we really like the fact that we don't necessarily have to fast for 40 days and that's maybe not the best thing for us. so what do we have to do in order to keep reminding ourselves of God so that God doesn't have to remind us himself that hey, I'm here. Yeah. as you were talking, was thinking couple things, Ken. One, you know, here I'm on the campus of of St. Vladimir Seminary and some of the greats of modern Orthodoxy, you know, walked these halls and and served in that church that's just, you know, 100 feet that way. Father Tom Hopkco, remember when he heard that the Senate of Antioch had made the decision return to what was the ancient Antiocan practice of no fasting for the four days of Pasca, he just sort of shook his head, said, I'm not sure that's good idea, you know, and think what he was saying was actually he was referring to the things that we're talking about that we tend not to do well with excess. And I'll give you an example from I'll use Pusca night because Pusca night should be the culmination of all of our spiritual efforts like you said obediently following the fast that we're given having gone to church much more having prayed hopefully much more having taken that spiritual growth and given it out in mercy to those in need as the hymns of Lent remind us over and over again. and the repentance that's just intrinsic to the whole the whole Lenton journey. We take all that, we get to Posa night. There's this explosion of joy. The church is bright and we embrace each other and we exclaim that joyous greeting. And then what do we do? Well, let's go with what we should do. We should once the liturgy is over, we've celebrated that feast of faith. We heard that beautiful homaly of St. John Chrysstm. we should go to the place the trap or the church hall where we're going for meal and now that all that has been blessed to be reint reintroduced into our diet we blessed it often so many of us do that in the church service itself why because the idea is we've now been freed of it we're now released from our addiction to it we've broken that want something and have to get it we spent long time doing that and now it should be free enjoyment and think that that does happen to degree. However, think some other things happen. Our attitude tends to be something like, just can't wait to pasta because need meat back in my dad. need the cheeses back. miss this. miss that." And it's okay to enjoy it. That's the blessing of Pusca is to be able to be enjoy it without being attached to it. But think what happens again in an environment that encourages our indulgence, it doesn't take long to go from enjoyment to maybe compulsion to even addiction. And think we live in time where and there's lot of reasons for it, but because the abundance is so much there are so many things that we find ourselves addicted to and it's not just food. In the old days that was one of the main main addictions which was why fasting from certain foods and amounts of food was so important. These days we can get addicted not only to substances alcohol and other substances. People get addicted to sports and to gambling or to sports gambling or to shopping or to watching the news or social media. Anything that gives us some kind of enjoyment can and often does go from enjoyment to sort of indulging in it to compulsion to have it even eventually too often to an addiction. So, and you know what's really funny about that is people are the most joyful, the most happy during Lent when they're giving all these things up. And when they think that, get all these things back, they seem to be the least happy. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing was reminded of on that that point is when finished seminary many moons ago. and that summer had two month-long trips. One was trip to the Holy Land. It's the closest ever got to Syrian Lebanon. got we were in we stayed in Jerusalem. visited lot of the areas around you know around Jerusalem went to the Galilee area. actually stepped one foot into the Goan Heights. They said you can't go there. That's Syria. And when the guard was looking, put my foot because don't know when get back get that close again. but my my thought was this will be very inspirational trip and it was but it was very also hard to see the treatment of the Palestinians. Then came home for about month and then went left again to go to Africa. And my thought in my head was finished seminary. I'll go and walk in the footsteps of Christ, the apostles, and be inspired and then get ready to launch out into ministry going on this mission trip to Africa. Like said, there were moments of inspiration in the Holy Land, but lot of of difficulty watching the treatment of the Palestinians. Then get to Africa and I'm supposed to go to help with my teammates to encourage and inspire these people. And then what found was it was the opposite. It was it was the exact opposite. I'll give you one story. we were giving talks at this church and this young man said me, would like to invite you to my home and show you my house and show you my garden. And there am, you know, sort of dumb American thinking his garden was where he grew the vegetables that he could get better than he could get in the market because it would be fresher and no pesticides and all that. So went to his house. He welcomed me and then he showed me his garden which then it dawned on me his garden is not where he goes to get better vegetables. It's where his family gets their food. They would grow their own food. And he said to me, I'll never forget this. said, when God sends rain, we're pretty sure we're going to eat that year. And when God doesn't send the rain, we're just not sure." Now, that kind of of reliance on God has been hard for me to relate to. wish had more of that in my life. But to show you how he had such reliance and to use the word you said just minute ago, joy. Very joy. very joyous in his outlook, his demeanor. He wasn't depressed. He was just happy to show what what God was doing. And he said, "We don't know how, but we know you know God will take care of us somehow." So that kind of joy is something think we all need, right? It's fruit of the spirit. Father John Minorf, another great that walked these halls said that joy is the quintessential Christian experience. And think about with all that we have, all of our abundance and how there seems to be lack of joy with so many people, even among us Christians and Orthodox Christians and huge numbers of, you know, rates, high rates of anxiety, depression, suicide. mean, this is horrible with so much. But to your point, it's not all that that brings us joy. It's God. And it's God who is just as easy to find. It's just little harder to find him when we're stuck in the midst of all of that abundance. And we even talked about the noise of technology and and all those kind of things, but that's another layer of difficulty of of finding our peace in God that modern life sends our way. Yeah. Beautiful. and definitely see what you experienced in Africa, maybe to lesser extent when spent time in Lebanon. You know, you remember me as 18, 19 year old at the village and always was like, I'm Lebanese. I'm Lebanese. I'm, you know, I'm Middle Eastern. Well, went to study in Lebanon for year and after couple days said, wait minute, I'm an American. mean, didn't like that the electricity was off for certain parts of the day. didn't like that the internet was very difficult to use. didn't like that when wanted to go somewhere, something so basic, when wanted to go somewhere, couldn't just get up and go. and sometimes because didn't have car and couldn't, you know, always get taxi. but also sometimes would call the taxi and say, want to go into Tripoli or something." Say, "Well, you can't go today." What do you mean can't go today? It's like down the street. But no, there's fighting today. You can't go there. my last time coming out of Syria, the guard said, hope you enjoyed it. This will be your last time here for while." And he was right. because the war was picking up. And so yeah, we're we're very spoiled as Americans. We don't even realize how spoiled we are. And so getting back you know and kind of diving in deep now to this topic sin seems more accessible to us today because of the comforts but also like you said this thing you know sin is literally in the palm of our hand. Of course, we could use it for good, and sometimes we do. but it's so easy that it's it's accessible so easily. And it's not only that it's accessible. we could be innocently, checking on our friends and family on Facebook and then something pops up on there that, you know, does harm to our spiritual lives. So, what can we personally do to make sin less available to us? Well, it's always going to be available, but think really the idea is how can we put up some kind of limitation because the world will not do that right in in more difficult circumstances, areas that don't have the excesses that we have in North America. There are some actual limitations that actually do help in the spiritual life in our you know condition of abundance that restriction isn't there naturally. So what do we need to do? We have to put it up right. Most people haven't thought about the fact that because we can do something should we do it right? heard somebody saying can't remember who it was. I'd like to give them credit but there's only one button on this thing. Actually, mine has three because there's volume, but typically there's at least they all have one button in common, and that's the power button. Like, we can turn them off. know it sounds so silly to even make it worth saying, but when talk about this topic with people and talk about all the things that we need to do, get into lot of talk about watching the news because there's this idea of, well, we need to stay informed. And to degree it's it is good to know what's going on. And people say, Father, need to know what's going on so know what to pray for." Well, you know, somewhere in the world there's warfare, there's famine, there's difficulty, there's there's all kind of strife. Do we really need to know all the details of where and who and how and why? Probably not. Actually, not just probably, we don't. Our our liturgy prays for it every week. And there there are two lines and that's all you need to know. Exactly. Peace from above for the salvation of our souls. Let us pray to the Lord. Yeah. For those who are for those who are suffering, we don't have to name all the ways people can suffer. Yeah. When we know it, sure, we should pray for them. But what's the downside? When think, well, have to stay informed. And again, it's the whole world's bad news that somehow think without even stopping to think about it, should be able to handle, right? Because that's how the news media works is the worse it is, put it out there. Why? Because it's it's business. they're going to get the clicks, the likes, the watches, the views, the ratings, whatever. And so the worse the news, the more it gets promoted, the more it draws us into watching it. And then if we think, well, I'm going to do it, so pray. We end up spending much more time, lot of us, if not most of us, reading the news, watching the news, learning more, scrolling, clicking than actually praying. So all that to say that we're going to have to decide to limit, right? Right? We have to limit how much. think everybody should think through when are they not on their phones. Is it dinner time? Is it after certain time before bedtime? We know science has already told us that people's lack of sleep, their insomnia, lot of it is is connected to their digital consumption. there's just lot of things that make it very difficult to go from this connected chaotic full abundant world and then try to sleep. which is why so many people are having trouble with sleep these days. It's problem talk lot with seminarians about. They're no we're no different than anybody else. We struggle with all the same issues and sleeplessness is big one. We have several seminarians that struggle several times per week with sleepless night or near sleepless night. And you know what it's like when you don't have good night's sleep. The next day is so hard and they're in class for half the day and they're trying to go through the services. So, all that to say, we have to limit just like we do with with our fasting, right? What do we say? We limit. We're going to limit the kinds of food, the amount of food. think we have to think about how we're going to limit our our digital consumption and our consumption in general. Now, that's hard because everything in our society says don't limit. You can have it all. Well, we can't have it all and the results are disastrous. So that's one of the main things is really thinking through how are we going to limit all the things that are available to us. Yeah. That so we have to set our own limits is what you're saying and really take step back and and think here's another perspective. Father George Sheloo is watching our show and he sent comment in. Hi Abuna, we miss you. he says the answer to all all our ills lies in the home. It's good to raise parents who are committed to the church and the church is the greatest reminder of who we are. Humanity faces all these changes and survived. Read the story of the first parents. It always leads to strong morality. so love father George Shahub always has the best answers in the most simple way that we just kind of ignored and he's absolutely right. So thank you Abuna for that. Yeah, and would say he's absolutely right in the family that's that's where so much either growth is going to take place or so much getting off the path is going to take place. Kids don't sign themselves up to get in all the activities that they end up doing and they get carded from this activity to that thing, from the dance to the soccer to the weather. And there's some good things and there's good things we can learn. There's teamwork. There's discipline. And so it's not we're going to sit home like little monks and nuns, but to think about the effect. remember there were certain families in the parish in Grand Rapids where they really struggle with how much to sign their kids up. And told them, "Good for you. Thank God you're struggling because sometimes the kids say, "Well, want to do that. My friend's doing this." They go, "Okay." And they sign up, sign up, sign up. Then they end up running their kids from thing to thing to thing to thing. and father, we can't make it to church. we're not going to be on Holy Friday this year because there's val volleyball tournament or whatever. So, Abuna is right, but think that makes the the importance of the home that much more important. Why? Because again, so many more options are given to our parents. and you know, it it saddens me when talk to parents who feel like they have to they have to give their kids cell phone at age 10 or 12 and they have to get them this streaming and that computer and this screen and everyone's in their own rooms on their own TVs and screens. Again, the kids aren't doing this by themselves. It's the parents. So, Buuna is absolutely right. parents, think long and hard about the kinds of things you are going to give your kids access to. know they're going to complain. They're going to whine. They're going to scream. All my friends have it. Trust me, someday you'll be happy that you thought through how much you gave them access to, especially as Father Joseph was saying, they can find anything on here, right? the best of the world and the worst of the world all can come with little bit of scrolling and few clicks and then you know all bets are off and and the parental controls don't take care of all that because lot of the things that they're getting is from their friends right remember my teens at one point in one of my parishes not here but they said the best conversations have happened after midnight no the worst conversations happen saying it says nothing good happens after midnight. No, midnight is for sleep. And and want to say shout out to my kids school. They go to St. Constantine school. and you know St. Constantine school especially for the lower grades below middle school. They just don't want our kids on the screens at all. And there is kind of commitment within the group of parents and the school to help encourage that. So, that's something really love because my when was in West Virginia, my daughter went to elementary school and kindergarten she had tablet that she was expected to do homework on. And I'm like, well, guess, you know, she's going to have to learn how to use the computer eventually. But was so glad that they decided, you know what, didn't have tablet when was in kindergarten. We didn't know what tablet was until think the first tablet saw was blessed memory, Father Elias, guitar chanting off of one. That was the first one saw in in person. our cell phones, my first cell phone got when was 18 and it did nothing except make phone calls. Then we had T9 texting and we didn't want to do that because it was so annoying. But you know something they taught at St. Constantine's to the parents was that boredom is the best thing that could happen to your children because it's problem that they learn how to solve on their own. and letting them solve the problem of boredom on their own is the greatest gift that you can give them. Yeah. and that kind of goes along with everything we're talking about. Yeah. And you know, we live in time because we can provide so much. We don't stop to think, should we, right? And think lot of us as parents, maybe all of us struggle to some degree with well, don't want my kids to suffer. Well, nobody wants to see their kids suffering. And it's it's like the deepest instinct within parent to protect their child. And so that instinct is good instinct and and is necessary to to keep child safe. But you take that instinct of protecting the child. You put that in world of not just plenty but but overabundance and then you redefine suffering as somebody not getting what they want. And that's recipe for disaster. And see it so many times. We've all seen it. You're in the grocery store and the kid's crying and complaining and the mother says, "Okay, here, take it." You know, anything to sort of Which you're not really helping the child. You're helping the mother's helping herself. She doesn't want to hear the kid screaming. Why Why is the kid screaming? Because somehow somebody taught that kid that if you scream, you get what you want. watched little clip of Will the original Willy Wonka, which think was from the 70s. That's like 50 years ago now. But it's amazing how those themes were already being brought out in terms of getting what you want and all the TV remember Mike TV you know all these and so it was ahead of its time in some ways but the church has always known this the church has always said you can't just have everything it's not good for you it's not the church doesn't restrict us because you know we're spoil sports and we're not going to have you know good food remember when was in Bowling Green Kentucky reporter came because they they found out that Orthodox Christians fasted during Advent. And they thought this was so interesting because Advent, the time before Christmas, that's party season, right? You go to this Christmas party and that company Christmas party and and so the reporter came, she interviewed me, she interviewed parishioners. And then the story came out and the first line, I'm going to change the name, but I'm going to quote it besides the name. no cookies for little Sally this time of year. And it was all about how our poor children were so deprived because they weren't getting Christmas cookies. Now, by the end of the article, they'd said, "Of course, Christmas is celebrated, the gifts, the food." But it started with this like shock like we would deprive our children, right? They can't have cookies every day all the time. But that shows you that's that's how we think in the world these days. Yeah. What mess. So, there's quote read at one point forgive me, I'm not going to be able to remember it exactly, but something like hard times make hard men and easy times make soft men. And this idea that kind of the harder the time is, the more think the person, you know, and getting back to our Christian roots, has to rely on God, right? he's not relying on himself so much and things aren't about what he wants, it's about what he needs to survive. and then something else think we talked about few days ago when we talked about doing this podcast was the pyramid of self-actualization. think you said Maslo Maslo's pyramid. So it said that you know when you have all of your needs when you have shelter and food and love and all these different things then you can reach self-actualization. So in an orthodox world let's pretend self-actualization is theosis right? So once you have all these things then you can have like that highest thing. Well it actually seems to be the opposite. When you have all of these things that's not the time for selfactualization. is actually when you don't have all these things because remember the wisdom of God is always different than the wisdom of the world things that make sense to psychologists and that was my degree and know that was your degree in fact think you encourage didn't encourage me but was inspired by you and so wanted to get psychology degree and think at one point you said why'd you bother but it's mean of course there are lot of great things in the psychology world and lot of great orthodox psychologists and psychiatrists so not don't want to put that down at all, but the wisdom of the world is so different than the wisdom of God. Yeah. Well, just think about that that term psychology or to mispronounce it, psychology, right? The PS what's the si it's the soul. So you hear of secular psychology again think agree with you has lot of bene beneficial things that we can learn and help us understand. And I've just I've been reading book by Mother Silana. Highly recommend this book. think SABA first recommended it and heard it recommended somewhere else so got it called God Where is the Wound? Mother Silana. God, where is the wound? And so she uses lot of the terms of psychology and she's actually the book is is transcription of lectures she gave to clergy at retreat at conference. so she uses it all but she points out in way actually Metropolan Haros makes the same point where he says you know secular psychology can help us in certain ways but the problem is secular psychology because it's secular doesn't believe in the it doesn't believe in the soul. So here we are with all of the great things and there's so many good things that it does whether it's through therapy and through medication lot of very helpful things but it's incomplete because you're treating the mind and you don't even believe in soul. So, Orthodox Christian psychiatrist, psychologists, God bless them. They have so much to offer their secular counterparts because we do understand we have soul and we even understand pretty clearly how it works in in the church by the fathers and mothers that have spoken to us and taught us how we function as human beings and how the soul interacts with our body, with our feelings, with our thoughts. so lot of good things we can learn, but like you're saying, it's it's our knowledge of God that is the ultimate need. And there's never our spirituality is never one where you say, "Well, right now you can't do something later on you'll be able." Right? What did Jesus say? He took little young child with all these scholars standing around with all their years of study and he said, "Unless you come become like little child, you can't enter the kingdom of heaven." And remind the seminarians this all the time because here they are learning all this really important theology and it is so important that they learn it. But tell them that's part of it right the history is important theology is important scriptur is part of it but going through all that and how you grow right so all that to say it's not like okay well they're going to learn all this and then they can go and put it in place. No, every moment is chance to grow in God, right? Little children are not there to show us that when they get older, they can believe in God. No, they're there as our examples to say that's what complete Christian faith looks like. The dependence and the love and the devotion of child to father and mother, those are that's that's what it looks like. So think we have to look at at any of us whatever situation is we shouldn't say well life is hard and if just got rid of this yeah we can simplify our lives and we should we need to but understand whatever situation we're in we can find God there in it. We might have to make some changes. was in New York City yesterday. My my dentist is on Fifth Avenue. My life has changed bit from the days in California or Michigan. take train to New York to go see my dentist. and there in the bustle of of the Midtown Manhattan and the noise and the honking and the it's just, you know, craziness and and chaos, ducked into St. Patrick's Cathedral, the the Catholic Cathedral there right on Fifth Avenue. And it's calm and it's peaceful. And no, it's not an Orthodox church. There's no icons and missed that. But just having place dedicated to God where it's quiet, you can you can start to come back to yourself. It's not to say we can't pray in the noise. We can. It's just lot harder. We need all of us need to be able to retreat. And that's one of the practical things want to say to everybody is we have to retreat. Even our Lord retreated, right? One of the icons be behind me. This one here, that's the icon of Christ in Gethsemane right before he's going to head to his passion. What does he need? He needs time alone with his father to pray. And there was not it was not the first time. Many many times in the gospels Jesus withdrew to place apart to pray. And so in this world with all of its challenges think it's that much more important that we draw part. So one of the things want to say to everybody is if you're not praying start. It doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to be long. In some ways you know Jesus warns us about praying long prayers. We have to be careful and we orthodox pray long prayers. to be careful that we're not just muttering, you know, empty words. But to go somewhere, and said something recently and I've been I've been been saying lot. think in the modern era, in this time, in this place, part of our prayer rule probably should have cup of coffee or cup of tea or whatever it takes to come and just enjoy peace with God. Then if you want to stand and say prayers and mean all those things are wonderful but we have to regain the joy of encountering God versus what do we do lot of times these days because we're so wrapped up in our busy lives and running around and and all the stuff we're chasing after and then we go well don't have time to pray I'll pray tomorrow I'll pray later on. No those little moments quiet moments saying simple words to God sitting in front of icons or sitting by window. used to remember my grandmother, God bless her soul, would wake up, she would be at the kitchen table, but standing at the glass door of the of the kitchen staring outside and didn't know at first what she was doing and then later on was going to watcher. She was praying, staring out the window. No icons, no candles. She just needed to be where she saw God in the beautiful outdoors and trees and the sky. So again, God is everywhere. It's just we have to find way to quiet ourselves down in very busy loud world to be able to to hear him and to remember that he's there. Yeah. You you said so many beautiful and wise things. first of all, I've always thought since my psychology studying days that the fathers were the best psychologists we had in the true sense of the word. And mean you you read book like the latter of divine ascent and you know from psychological point of view alone let alone the spiritual it's like blows your mind how well they understood the human piki like you said the soul. Yeah. and St. John St. Basil and Yeah. mean there's theology is is about the healing of our siki. So absolutely and you also remind me of story of St. in Porto Fidios, think it was, when he was sick and had to leave the Holy Mountain, he was assigned to parish in Athens, think. And there's lot of noise, but specifically during the liturgy, he could hear across the street, there was guy playing records. So, this was, you know, maybe not it didn't happen in our lifetime, but maybe in our parents' lifetime, and he died in our lifetime. And you know, so at the end of liturgy, he just couldn't pray. He was so distracted by all the noise going on and he went over and he asked the guy, "Please, at least on Sundays, don't play this." And the guy pretty much in not so nice way told him to show off. And and so he went he's like, "All right, that's it. got to quit. can't, you know, I'm used to the monastery." And can't remember the story exactly. don't know if an angel or somebody came to him and kind of said, "If you were really praying, you wouldn't have heard that noise at all." And you know, encourage experienced that at my church now. Thank God we're as mission. We've grown so much we could barely fit and we have lot of kids and it's such blessing. But sometimes, you know, monkey see and they start to encourage each other to make noise and every once in while I'll start to lose my concentration and then remember that story. I'm like, you know what? If was praying, wouldn't even hear them right now. yeah, and that's such an important remember because of all the noise. if we don't learn to quiet down when it's quiet, how are we going to quiet down when it's noisy? So, you're absolutely right and it's great point, but again, think it also shows that we still need those times and and it's not like life is going to open up space or time. The this is kind of life that if you let life lead you, you'll go from one thing to the next to the next to the next next. you're exhausted and you get up the next day and you do it all over again. It it can feel like and quiet might not quiet might not also be always measured by decibb. It could be the the noise in our mind. because when I'm doing this, you know, there's noise going on in my mind and that's not quiet time. That's right. There might not be any noise at all, but that's still not quiet time. And we were reminded by the prophet Elias where God is found. It's found in the quiet, in the stillness. Yeah. And that's where, you know, Orthodox prayer Hezekiah comes from. Of course, we could do the Jesus prayer while, you know, we're doing the dishes or vacuuming and there's lot of noise, but there's still stillness in our hearts. And so, we can find that everywhere if we learn how to. But it takes practice. It's like everything. It's not something that we just, heard Father Michael speak last night and so I'm going to start doing this. No, don't be discouraged if it doesn't work right away. Talk to your priest. Yeah. Let him coach you on how to do this. So, Father Michael, we only have 10 minutes left. and know you have class to teach tonight. We want to be respectful of your time and your students, time. so in the next 10 minutes want to go over kind of the practical things that we could do what we're going to take away from this talk today which was very beneficial even to me which always call you when I'm frustrated and need to think you like when leave you voice messages but so you talked about prayer life you said if you're not praying start praying and you're right it doesn't have to be very long My spiritual father always said, "Be consistent more than you are long in your prayers." And so just having consistent prayer rule. Again, it's important. It It's not important for me to tell or for you to tell everybody what their prayer rule should be. it's important that we have prayer rule and then they go to their spiritual father and he gives them prayer role after he knows them and knows what they can handle. Yeah. So, kind of quieting our lives little bit, limiting the technology. what else can you tell us? yeah, mean there's so many things we could do. think one of the things is is orientation, right? This is world that wants to supply orientation. What's orientation? The word comes from orient, which means east. And that's how people in the ancient world before they had magnetic compasses. The east was that point of reference. and everything else. You made your reference off of that point. Well, this is world that will supply orientation. And in fact, what hear from people, especially people in in corporate America, the orientation is always about the money and the earnings and it always keeps moving, right? You you you set goal, you reach the goal, now there's bigger goal, there's higher goal. So think choosing our orientation and and choosing it to be Christ. I'm going to read you the the hymn that we sing on Christmas. we sing thy nativity. Christ our God has shown to the world the light of wisdom. For by it those who worship the stars were taught by star to adore thee the son of righteousness and to know thee. And this is the world gets word gets translated differently. We know thee the orient from on high, the dawn of day from on high, the dayr from on high. Lord going to thee. But however you translate that word, the orient from on high, it's the point of reference, right? Christ is for us the point of reference. That's why traditionally we face our churches, we build them towards the east. We orient the church so the church can help us orient our whole lives to Christ. We say in the liturgy and all the services that we commit ourselves and each other and all our life to Christ our God. He's the point of reference. And again, think to to take that idea of orientation and bring it out from just when I'm praying or when I'm going to church, but to orient our lives on God in general. Doesn't mean we're not going to go to work. We are. In fact, was talking to young man recently. He was telling me some challenges he had in the work environment. And it came to me that for most people the time they put into work if they have paying job is probably the most unused segment of their day in terms of their spiritual life or you think well it's my work time got to clock in at nine get out of five whatever or for some people it's the 12-h hour day the 14 hour day even worse. but to think about your day is not just there to to do job and do good job as we should and to earn money, to take care of your family. It's wonderful. It's good thing. But how can we grow? Just think about it. Every day we go to work, whatever. No matter what we do, we can grow in our faith by how we do our work, how we interact with people, the kindness we show them, the patience we show them, the love of God that he gives to us that we can share with other people. So think that's one of the things is that we have to decide what's the orientation going to be in our life. and then we think through how are we going to do that. Yep. That that's great point. remember Mother Gabriella from Holy Door Mission Monastery who I'm sure you know very well from your time in Michigan. remember I'd finished my bachelor's degree and was doing job. And remember that sometimes had to do this like kind of, you know, stuffing envelopes or, you know, whatever it was. And was complaining to her that didn't think should do this. You know, have college degree and you know, shouldn't have to do these things. Now would love to do some of these things. but she said to me, "Let your work be your prayer." And she said, 'When you're putting the stamp on, make sure you put the stamp on straight and with love. And when you're writing the thing, don't rush and do it well. And she said, your love will come across the work you do. And you'll be offering that to God as prayer. Not to mention the tithe that we give is we're giving tithe from that means 10% of our time at work we're giving to God, right? At least. And if we're working as Christian, that kind of gets multiplied. So if you're treating people well at work, if you're not gossiping, if you're not taking more breaks than you're supposed to and getting paid for it, if you're doing the work with Christian love, and you know, love even when go to the monasteries, not just watching the monks pray, but watching them work. It's amazing. They're saying the Jesus prayer when they can. Okay, maybe if you're doing job like you're surgeon or something, maybe you can't you're not trained to do the Jesus prayer at the same time. But if you're just doing it with love, doing the best of your to to the best of your ability, then you're offering that to God. And that's beautiful thing. The other thing tell people all the time, make communion the center not only of liturgy but the center of your life. With every action that you do, ask yourself, can take communion after doing that? And if we are always focused on communion as the center of our life, so that's what you said, orient yourself to Christ because that's what Christ is holy communion. If we're focusing on that all week, should be having this conversation right now? Should be watching this show right now? Should be listening to this song because have to take communion this week? And if we are oriented towards that, then absolutely. that'll change our life. So, we probably have time for one more of these great points that I'm I'm condensing down. One more would say is we have to understand that our problems are not our problems. Our problems are difficulties and their challenges. And if we're honest, most of us either only grow spiritually or grow the most spiritually when life has gotten challenging. So for lot of us when problem comes, we just we kind of lose it and we get so confused and we even blame God and God how could you allow this to handle? Doesn't mean life isn't difficult. Life can be very difficult. But if we turn those difficulties and say, "Okay, God, how are you going to get me through this? I'm going to watch for this and I'm going to look for how you're going to get me through this." We'll realize that our problems are difficult. We go through many challenging things, right? People lose family members. They people deal with sickness, you know, financial, all kind of difficulties in the world. But if we can see those difficulties what they are, yes, they're difficulties. Yes. they help us see that we need God. They also show us that our difficulties aren't the problem. Our difficulties actually what help us find God often the most. So when things don't go well, which we're not used to again in this world, we get so much want. When things don't go well, we get so distracted and we think that the world is ending. No, it's just reminder that God has us. He's taking care of us. that whatever our problem is, that's not the problem. How respond to it, that might be my problem, right? But taking those problems and realizing, no, God is gonna is is here with me. He's going to give me everything need. What what is Pusca if not the defeating of death, the worst thing the world in its in its evilness could come up with? God even conquered that. So, we got to learn not to make our problems our problems. See them as the the blessings that they are. That's beautiful. Father, come full circle. You mentioned at the beginning there's no resurrection without the cross and if we're going to follow Christ, we have to take up his cross and follow him. so that's absolutely right to plug book also illness and the believer from Newome Press written by Haram Gregorius. Very small short book but it's wonderful book. It's about illness and how that, you know, helps bring us to God. But you can apply it to anything to work, to whatever it is, whatever problems we have, and how that really is meant to bring us closer to God. Father Michael, want to really thank you. know you have to go, you have class to teach here, and I'd like to thank all of our viewers for watching. If you enjoyed this program, please subscribe to the channel and like and share this video so that you in your own little way become an apostle for Jesus. Be on the lookout next month for new episode with special guest. Until then, the blessing of the Lord be upon you. Christ is risen. Good night. And Father Michael, hope to have you back on the show. hope. So nice to be with you. God bless you. Thank you.