Faith and Farsi The Cluff Brothers LDS Mission Experience

came away from it having learned something from him it was helpful in lot of ways, but especially in building humility in me and realizing that there are people who are much wiser than me, who are not from the same faith tradition as me, who can learn from, and why wouldn't we want to learn from each other. Hey guys, welcome to Take Leap podcast. I'm Ocean Marshall. And I'm Neftali Rodriguez. Here at Take Leap, we talk to people of different faiths about how they're changing the world. Today we're talking with Zachary and Wyatt Cluff two brothers from Idaho who ended up learning Farsi. But first, let's go to our man on the street interviews where we talk to people about what they do and what they think. Today we asked them about what their favorite swig order was. we should explain swig. If you're new to Utah, swig is soda shop where you order your favorite soda with lots of flavors, Make sure to check out our additional content on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. So let's introduce Zach and Wyatt. They're Latter Day Saints from Meridian, Idaho, and both were called on Farsi speaking missions. If you don't know, Latterday Saints serve volunteer missions at 18 or 19, but they don't pick where they'll go and live for the next 18 months or so. They get assigned by the church headquarters and it's kind of unusual that two brothers would end up speaking the same language or get called to the same country. Zack served in San Diego with Farsi speaking communities and why it served in Toronto Varsi is the language people speak in Iran. Some people refer to it as Persian. Zach is senior at BYU in biochemistry, and why is sophomore double majoring in Middle Eastern studies and the Arabic language, so he's all in. In the language learning. Now let's hear from Zach and Wyatt about how they learned to speak Farsi in North America. hey guys, welcome to Take Lead podcast. We are so excited to be here with Zach and Wyatt. We are super excited to get to know them more and learn about what they do and how they're changing the world with their faith and their careers. we have really cool icebreaker and the question for today, and it might be interesting 'cause Heidi told us that you might not drink swig, but what's your go-to swig order? yeah, my go-to swig order is water. I'm sure Heidi already told you that, which means just drink it from the faucet at home. Right. But soda too spicy for me. Yeah. also, I've actually never been to swig. almost really, almost got pressured into it once, but then managed to escape it and got ice cream instead. okay. but. If were to choose just like soda to order it, I'd probably pick root beer. Root beer. Okay. Sweet. you know, the water there is good too though. 'cause they have the pebble ice, which is nice. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And the water just like tastes really good there. So if you ever need some like good water, it's free 60 ounce free water. So, and waiting in line for water? Yeah. Yes. Is the pebble dice is like the sonic case. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's true. worked at Sonic for like year and half, so yeah. sweet. Were you like in roller skates? Are they doing that now or No? was the position that could do the roller skates. Okay. did not did that. Sweet. This kitchen floor was way too slippery. I'm sure it was like skating on just the greasy floors. No, literally you up walking. Okay. What about you, ocean? What's your realtor? mine is dirty Dr. Pepper with coconut cream. Sweet. Delicious. Yeah. Okay. What about you? feel like haven't been in minute, but it's always like. the cream one. Dr. Pepper Cream Lime. Mm-hmm. What's that one? Do you know that? feel like you know the name. probably like Lime and the coconut. ak AK seven. AK something special. Okay. Yum, but yeah, feel like swig is such common thing in Utah, so No, literally we thought we'd ask. It's crazy. Okay, so you guys both served missions for the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter Saints. So what motivated you to do that? let's see. I'll go first because have the birthright. Technically not, mean it's pretty simple. It's just that know that the Book of Mormon is true and that the gospel that it teaches and it's been revealed through the restoration is true. And so if that's true, then why not spend two years sharing it? Right. And it's something that's. Brought me lot of joy and purpose, so, For me, It's knowing that the gospel is true and that it's good and that it's done good things in my life. And wanting to share that with other people. 'cause know that the principles that are taught in scriptures are kind of universal things. If you can pull out the true principles from it, then you can pretty much anyone can apply them to their lives regardless of what they're going through. another thing that was really big. In my deciding to go on mission, kind of always was like, defaulted to, I'm going on mission mm-hmm. When was younger, but when our older brother got sent home from his mission, five months early because of COVID. Mm-hmm. He got released immediately. And so got to see at that point, all three of us were sleeping in the same room because my parents did not expect him to come home early. see. But got to see very Cluffose up what the life of missionary is like in the way that it impacts somebody positively. saw the way that he grew to love people and to want to connect with them and the work ethic that he gained, and decided that was something wanted as well was the personal. Yeah, personal benefits. It sounds little selfish, but No, of course. feel like that's so cool. know. mean, after the mission too, and know Ocean is gonna live on mission soon. How do you feel Ocean? I'm excited. I'm going to on mission this June, so I'm excited about that. Where are you going? I'm going to the Alpine German mission. they got Persian speakers. They do. Really? That's awesome. And it's so cool 'cause you guys are speaking, you guys had to learn Farsi to serve your missions. How did that start out? We would've love to hear about that. yeah, I'm embarrassed to admit this. maybe the reason we both got called Farsi speaking missions is 'cause we both studied Arabic in high school. really? Mm-hmm. just the random high school in Meridian, Idaho that has an Arabic class. So but didn't know that Farsi was like language. Mm-hmm. If you asked me. You know, one month before getting my mission call, Hey, what language do they speak in Iran? I'd probably be like Arabic pretty confidently, They say Persian, so if we wanna get technical, like Persian is the English word. Farsi is the Persian word for the language. So it's like Spanish. It's like Spanish versus Espanol. Yeah. interesting. didn't know that. Okay, so the mission call said Persian and was like, Persian. Is that, what even is that? Yeah, but learned quickly. So was kind of in the same boat. also took Arabic in high school. was doing program that required language study and. wanted to keep using Arabic rather than switching to something else. Yeah. So did that and then put that on my mission papers, got the call, Persian speaking, and obviously my immediate reaction was to, it was like, that's awesome. I'm gonna be speaking the same language as my brother. Yeah. And he was on the phone call at the time and was like, yo, this is great. sweet. Yeah. So do you guys like speak Persian to each other? Ever? Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. We do our best. It's usually when it's just the two of us. If somebody else is around like his wife or our other brother mm-hmm Then we just speak English. But if it's just the two of us hanging out, then yeah, that's like good, like code we're talking about that it's like good, like secret like language. 'cause no one, right. mean, you guys know anyone else like close around your circle that speaks it. So we actually, we are two of three. missionaries coming out of our home ward who spoke Persian. Really? wow. Interesting. And can you guys just tell us where you guys went on your missions? Yes, was in San Diego. Beautiful, sunny San Diego, California. yeah. was in Toronto, Canada, which is not beautiful and sunny, but it was great. That's so fun. so can you tell us about how you like immersed yourself in the language and culture before going to the MTC and also like tell us about what the MTC is? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, for me it was little bit different. started in July of 2020, which was different times. I'm sure you guys remember. the, main opportunity had to study the language beforehand was just doing some Zoom lessons with the MTC teachers. learned the alphabet, that was about it. Mm-hmm. and then the MTC was all online for me, so it was just like. Six hours day of Zoom class. Mm-hmm. For how many weeks speaking Farsi? nine weeks. Wow. That's long time. Just online. Geez. it's kind of difficult language to start learning on your own because there's not very many resources. Mm-hmm. It's like it's not on Duolingo. I'm mad about it not being on Duolingo. They've got clinging on, they've got made up languages, but they don't have RC come on, this is the over hundred million people speak. Yeah. really? Yeah. So how was your experiences like obviously now, like you had got the call, you guys had practice in MTC at the training center for missionaries. like how was it interacting, speaking with person from different language? feel like that's such unique experience. at first it was very, intimidating in some ways. remember like my first interactions with people coming outta the MTC, felt pretty, pretty confident. was like, yeah, know this language. Like don't know everything clearly, but know, know decent amount after nine weeks and then got into the field and, when my trainer would have me talk to people, would just like kind of freeze and not know what to say. Mm-hmm. Because it's completely different set of skills to like get into the conversation and know how to. Interact in those, like first, in that first exchange of formalities than it is to like give recited lesson. Mm-hmm. And so that took some getting used to. but there's learning the language and then there's whole nother level of actually being able to speak it. In normal way, hundred the way that other people speak it. And that took, still dunno how to talk normal Farsi, but can kind of say some things that heard other people say. and then when it comes to translating, religious terminology, that's whole nother like minefield. what's interesting about both of your guys' missions is that Farsi isn't like the main language in those places. Mm-hmm. Like, you probably weren't super immersed. actually don't know. Would you guys like, say you were super immersed or was that like lot of English around you? in my case it was lot of English, especially at first. Mm-hmm. but as, because came in right after COVID, there was lot of. People that had gone inactive or moved or just fell off the face of the map. So there really weren't very many Iranian members of the church in the area who were actually like actively engaged. and so at first it was very difficult to get immersed, but as my mission moved forward, we baptized people, we built up community. like by the end of it, it was lot easier to look at back on the end of day and be like, wow, spent seven hours of this day speaking Persian. Yeah. That's so cool. 'cause feel like, well you guys are from Idaho. How is your guys' experiences like now being in different parts of the world, you know, not with family now speaking with people from different faiths, like how was that experiences and how has that shaped how you view and interact with people today? think it's something that expands your worldview lot. because growing up in Idaho, it's like there are basically three, belief systems that exist. You're either not religious, you're Protestant or you're member of the church. Mm-hmm. And so what you, feel like what you end up hearing, even in church is lot of, lot of rhetoric that's very much focused on this. This community in which we live. Mm-hmm. Right. And so when people are addressing concerns, they're often addressing concerns that are being posed by non-religious people or, Protestants, but then going to, especially going to Toronto where it's like very diverse city with lots of different faiths. and then being able to interact closely with people who, lot of them are Muslim. Some of 'em identified as Bahai or Zoroastrian, or lot of them didn't want to be identified, but they were like, I'm still religious. And seeing it kind of opened my mind to lot of questions about the gospel that had never thought to ask before. And being able to ask those questions was very productive in helping me to have more well-rounded, view of what is the gospel and what does it mean on global scale. Mm-hmm. Yeah. don't know if can say it better than that. Yeah. That's great. we're just gonna take little break and ask fun question again. So, our question is, what's something that sounds like it's like fake story in your life, but it's actually real. have group of friends we, we all hung out lot in high school, but one thing off the top of my head that remember is they got an idea somehow to build Trojan horse. And so out of wood and cardboard, they built this little, it was probably five feet tall and geez, four feet long. It was big enough to fit one of our smallest friends inside of it. And so they brought it to my house and knocked on our door. And then they're like, we have gift for you. And then they're like, can we bring it in? And so they brought it in and then my friend jumps out of it. typical But then later that day, we decided we had made potato gun, like the week before that. potato gun? Yeah. Yeah. Where does God out? It shoots, it shoots potatoes. It's an Idaho thing, guess, it's like air pressurized cannon thing, where essentially you just like blow it up with bike pump, and then you pull the trigger and then shoot potato out of it. We loaded rocks into it. And then we destroyed the Trojan horse by shooting it with rocks from the potato gun. Sweet. That's crazy. That's like Idaho daily activity. Yeah, we were even in the middle of field, so that's crazy about you, Zach. was in Afghanistan for like two and half weeks. Mm-hmm. And maybe couple days into my stay there Took bus from Kabul to Mazar Sharif. Mm-hmm. Which is like 12 hour, like overnight bus trip on the worst roads imaginable. and went out to use the bathroom. It was still dark. It was like four o'clock in the morning. That's when you say your morning prayers. Mm-hmm. So was using my phone as flashlight, in this pit toilet, just like hole in the ground. guess was real tired or something, so dropped my phone in the pit toilet. My God, Gosh, it fell down like 20 feet. And so just had to be like, oops, get back on the bus, keep going. honestly, the craziest thing about this to me is everyone ran into after that in Afghanistan, told them the story of like, man, lost my phone. dropped it in pit toilet in Azar. And every single one of 'em was like, you know, they probably have guy there that would go get it for you. was like, you're like, no, don't. don't know if they do. Yeah. don't know if they have guy there at four o'clock in the morning. Who would wade into the pit to get my just get on toilet? That's how lost my last iPhone. that's terrible. Yeah. So sad. What would you say now? kind of mission related too, we, was serving my mission in Ecuador. Mm-hmm. and there was time where there like were riots because the government wasn't paying the farmers enough money, So we were like in lockdown because of these riots. There's like tires being blown up on the street, like right outside of our apartment. Anyways, long story short, we had to get home walking seven hours because it was like 30 minute bus ride, but on the way back they had to like close off all the roads it felt like this apocalyptic movie 'cause we're just walking the freeway and there's just like fires everywhere. And my, was training guy who just started his mission. He was like, want to go home. Like, this is crazy. Anyways, we finally, it was like two in the morning and this, told these people who were like, were like guarding the the road and we're like, Hey, we've been walking for like. 6, 6, 7 hours. and like, can you guys just like drive us? We're like missionaries. And they're like, yeah. So they called someone and it felt like was being rescued and they drove us to our home, so that was terrible. Wow. That's crazy. Ocean. Nothing that crazy has happened to me. I've yet, yeah, yet, yet I've been hit with firework that was pretty crazy. Like firework like went off and it like ricocheted off the garage and like came back and hit me. That's crazy. It not, that is not fun. That does not sound real. Not fun. So now there's like spots in my legs that won't tan because they like. Because got burned. 'cause of the firework. Wow. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Just wait till you, your mission. Yeah. Yeah. This is take leap from BYU radio and we're talking to brother Zach and Wyatt Cleff about Farsi communities in North America. Okay, sweet. So going back into the interview How was learning about. Different faiths and cultures influenced your life. feel like that's such an important thing where the mission prepares you to serve people that you would normally not interact with, right. So how has that experience shaped how you view other people and how you plan on continuing that care, that love, that, that open-mindedness with other people now? This is take leap from BYU radio and we're talking to brother Zach and Wyatt Cleff about Farsi communities in North America. Iranians especially those outside of Iran, are number of different faiths. have you guys had Bahai guests on this show? Yeah, actually our last guest was, yeah. So there's Muslims, obviously it's majority Muslim country. lot of them are curious about or converting to Christianity. lot of 'em are irreligious. met number of Bahai people on my mission, but think one experience that stands out to me was attending like Bahai study group on our mission. first of all, it was cool. They, they knew about us. We were like, yeah, we're, you know, you can see the name tag we're from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. And they were like, you know, did you know, we know about Joseph Smith? Mm-hmm. You know, he said, and they, they quoted the doctrine and covenants. but there's the doctrine covenants, section where he says that the Lord told him if he lives to be 80 years old, he'll see the face of God. And they were like, well, you know what happened about 80 years after Joseph Smith's birth is about Howah was born. And was kind of like, whoa. That's cool. Yeah. just thought it was really cool. They obviously have very. Open view of like what religions are true. Mm-hmm. and so we studied in that study group stuff from the Quran, stuff from Baha Law, writings of Buddha. we brought in like the Book of Mormon and the Bible as well. they just take what's best from every religion. instead of approaching other religions with like question of like, am right or are you right? Mm-hmm. Which is easy to do because when you're having, talking with someone with different religion, there are obviously disagreements between you, but they just kind of look at it as like, what can learn from you? And that's an attitude that I've tried to adopt more when I'm learning about other faiths and talking to people with other faiths is just. You know, what are you doing that's good. What can learn from you? think an experience that I've had that has, Helped me to kind of foster that outside of my mission was last month was able to go on trip with my religion class, to Southern California. And as part of that trip we were engaging with, evangelical students from university on their Biola University. We were having interfaith dialogues, and there were some professors that were trying to model how do you have productive dialogue with someone of another faith? And then after those, dialogues, we went and we talked with Muslim imam in the area and we had Iftar, which is kind of the break the fast at the end of the day of Ramadan with them. And then we were also able to go visit Buddhist temple. and think the biggest takeaway had from that experience is, the, the mindset that you bring to conversation with someone of another faith is everything like the, feel like the students interacted with in by all university, these evangelicals did really good job of just coming at it with curiosity as opposed to suspicion or like. I'm gonna prove you wrong. That kind of mentality, which sometimes you get from people, but it's also good to realize that there's lot of people who are, very good, open-minded people who want to learn, and think realizing that. lot of other people feel that way and deal with the same pressures that we do in our faith is very, helpful in terms of determining how interact with them. you guys have probably had so many, like important and impactful experiences, like on and after the mission, so can you tell us one that was either like stuck out lot or one that you're just like thinking about right now? One of the most significant things in my mission that kind of have realized more so looking back on it, was there was man who was teaching for about. Six months, something like that. he loved going to church, he loved reading the Book of Mormon, all these things. but he wouldn't get baptized because he was probably going to go back to Iran to take care of his mother who was, widowed or ill, don't quite remember. and obviously if. You were born Muslim and you convert and then you go back to Iran, there can be pretty serious consequences for that. once we kind of got past the, the missionary lessons, our teaching kind of evolved from teaching into just discussing. Mm-hmm. And thought one of the most wonderful things was the amount that was able to learn from him in that experience. like came to look forward to talking to him lot, even though my companion at the time did not speak Persian very well. So it was largely just me and him talking. But came away from it having learned something from him and from our interactions, and think it was helpful in lot of ways, but especially in building humility in me and realizing that there are people who are much wiser than me, who are not from the same faith tradition as me, who can learn from, and why wouldn't we want to learn from each other. think one experience that sticks out to me, this is not for my mission, this is from when was in, Pakistan. we visited kind of the central market area of Peau, which is, mean, if you're picturing Pakistan, it's maybe exactly what you're picturing. It's super duper crowded, quite polluted, pretty dirty city. Mm-hmm. the central market is just. these super narrow streets, super tall buildings, in the middle of this kind of central market district, there's very old mosque. so we wandered around the market district, we made it to this mosque, and then we went inside and, the outside was so chaotic and crazy, and we stepped into this mosque and it was just like so quiet and peaceful in there. It was kind of sacred space. and the thing that, that sticks with me from that is just the realization that, you know, although we disagree, often about religion with other people, lot of us are looking for the same things in our religion. and being able to go in there and just. Feel, think little bit of what faithful Muslim feels when they step into mosque and to feel that profound sense of, of peace and just feeling like there's lot like going into the temple. Like this is place that's away from all of the hustle and bustle of the world where people are just, mean, taking naps and reading the Quran and contemplating. Before they have to step back out and go, you know, work for their daily bread. that was really cool experience for me. Mm-hmm. Thanks for sharing those beautiful experiences. To kind of conclude the, the interview is like certain phrase or like saying in the Persian language that really stuck out to you guys and that you like to share the meaning of. First one that comes to mind is, which is also phrase that exists in English. This too shall pass, but it's really, think, prevalent in Persian culture. love the, the principle behind that, which is kind of like. Understanding the fleeting nature of our mortal lives and how, you know, Bad things will happen to us. Those things will pass. The important thing is the way that we change from the things that we experience and do. it's helped, helps me to kind of remember and not, not hyperfocus on something. And build too much of my identity around it when know it's something that's gonna pass more important for us to build, off of kind of our divine identities, like children of God, those things that will not change. It's one, if you've ever talked to Muslim, you've probably heard it 20 times. it is just the phrase in Shaah. yeah, use it all the time. Why use me too? Use it all the time. and it just means God willing. Right? And there's passage in our scriptures in the Book of James where it kind of expresses this idea that like, you should never say like, yes, I'll, I'll meet you at two o'clock. You should always say, I'll meet you at two o'clock. God willing. and Shaah. and that to me is reminder to just maybe relinquish little bit of control over my life to remember that everything that happens is the will of God. And if can't do something that really want to do, it's also the will of God. God is in control. we'd love to hear how it sounds like. Yeah. Because yeah, I'm sure people are like, what does it sound like? Yeah, so about. To program Zach asked me if anybody listening to this podcast speaks Persian and was like, don't know. Probably not, but maybe. okay. So we just have, who does? We'll hear that it's sort refreshing. Really. Yeah. And Thanks to Zach and Wyatt for speaking with us. That's our show. Take. Leap is produced at BYU Radio by Heidi Cloth with additional production by Nick Lovett. we're your hosts? Neftali Rodriguez and Ocean Marshall