Mehdy Shaddel Universal Empire Supersessionist Ideology The Emergence of Islam in Umayyad Syria

foreign thank you very much for coming to the first first modulus of this Academic Year and the fact that started the recording shows already some some Novelties and and so we are we are experimenting bit of new with new format this this year and it is that the the modulus will be made of three part the first part is will be dedicated to the to the person who is presenting in the sense that they will present their own trajectory and this is something I've been thinking of for quite long and the idea is that we we all have to put up into the into the cloud an icon of ourselves into the cloud of the internet which which is literally an icon our our best possible picture with our best possible achievements and this is of course True Image because we we did achieve those things but it's really just just the peak of the mountain and the icon is on the on that Peak and it can be very intimidating for especially for younger Scholars to to to see these icons because one would assume that these icons were just born there now this is really not the case we we all know so so and then well they would see see us like superheroes now it is true that we are superheroes in surviving in Academia flourishing in Academia but but all superheroes are are interesting because behind superhero there is real hero and and asked all of our guests to to reveal as much as they they want from from the from this real hero who is who isn't human being who who is not who is vulnerable who has their their dreams and and and failures and fears and and joys and ways to overcome them so so that will be the first part basically what we will do is to bring the after to after talk dinner table discussion before the talk and it depends on the on the person that how much they want to reveal also whether they want to record this bit and make the kindly agreed to record it and then then we will well the presentation of themselves will lead into the presentation of their own research and and research history and then that will that will introduce the Talk itself which really in think in our case is recorded and then the third part will be the the question the session for questions and that bit we won't record so you you will be free to free to ask whatever you would like to ask and know that this this is not going to be to to appear online so that's that's think must be relieving relieving for for everyone speakers and and people who want to ask questions and also well it's also way to to incentivize people coming in in spite of the fact that the talks will be recorded the discussion won't and the discussion is always immensely interesting so you people shouldn't miss that that should come live okay so that's the presentation of the new format and then then will very shortly introduce Mahdi May and then he will introduce himself so so met magdi at at talk of his which was which was an online talk but he thought that it didn't go very well because someone from from the audience was asking perhaps nasty questions and then actually knew that the talk went very well because was the person who was asking the questions so really really liked the talk and that's why was asking questions shouldn't if didn't like it wouldn't have bothered now luckily we met we met again at another conference in person and then we we had discussion and he told that that partly inspired by these nasty questions he continued working on his paper and then asked him well would you like to to present the the revised version and and and he kindly agreed and he was also incredibly Brave to be the the guinea pig or guinea Lion of the of this this new series with with this new new format for which I'm incredibly grateful to him magdi will be silent and please please start thank you very much that's very kind introduction for for inviting me here it's an absolute pleasure to be here today and big word of thank you to you all for being here for for making up time to actually come and listen to me today so first of all have to correct you on one point you didn't ask any nasty questions only helpful and constructive questions so enjoyed lot my interaction with the audience at the at the Israel Academy of Sciences was it in June or July in July think and yes it was the reason felt uncomfortable was because was presenting online to an audience who were there in the room so it felt like was speaking to void and that was why was in the main feeling uncomfortable but absolutely enjoyed the interaction with the audience including like the other questions was asked the very helpful and and let's say guiding questions including yours and and thank you very much for the questions because didn't recognize you actually from that distance so didn't know who who it was was asking me questions I'm sorry about that but later on found out that it was you anyhow thank you very much again for for inviting me here so I've been asked to first start of the bit of self-deprecation it seems as ishvan already told you and Then followed by some self agendas so voila it's usually like mean when when colleagues people who are an Academia or or things like that maybe in in business or something like that you don't ask people how you got into this business well like I'm taxi driver don't know shop owner or something like that but Academia the first question we usually ask from people is how did you end up doing this why made you interested in this subject or something like that so think it's it's only suitable for me to actually start that saying few words about how how ended up doing what I'm doing right now so have to say that well from their early age was on the one hand interested in history in particular and then the other interested in academic inquiry was very inquisitive child and was interested in academic inquiry making inquiries of all kinds finding out about different issues different things would just spent the Summers like I'm reading books about Holland santry and thought it would be the only fulfilling actually let's say trajectory for from my future would be something that involved lot of question asking and I'm finding answers to questions those questions for rather trying to find answers to those those questions and was also among other things very much interested in history but then at high school opted for different tracks so grew up actually in Iran come from very small town north of the country and the province is called gilan so my hometown is not very far from the southern coast of the Caspian Sea and grew up there and there like mean in Iran you usually have the option of further specializing in theme at High School so ended up doing something which is called math and physics mathematics and physics which you usually follow to study either engineering or Natural Sciences and wanted to do Natural Sciences like and that was also let's say contentious decision when decided to actually opt for it for for physics and start to studying physics at at College my family friends mentors teachers everyone was indignant at me because like I'm even doing Natural Sciences but doing natural by doing Natural Sciences in country like Iran you're not supposed to get good job or something like that you're supposed to do engineering something like that or if you're in different like mean trajectory then maybe medical Sciences law or something like that but other than that you have to like do engineering if you're doing this following this track then you you have to do engineering but decided to do physics instead so started enrolling and bachelor's program in physics at the University of Tehran ended up there like I'm following the program for four years but they didn't finish if not even after four years that the Avo let's say the minimum length of bachelor's program in Iran still is and couldn't actually finish the program in four years and then had lots of problems like mean financial problems other problems and eventually realized that wasn't actually going to be able to to actually finish my studies so decided to draw Parts dropped out abandoned everything went back to my hometown and then started thinking to myself that what I'm going to do from now on so obviously you yeah had several options very obvious options other would find myself job and start making living and forget about all my academic dreams and Ambitions and everything all would start enrolling in different program or maybe even in another physics program again starting new or would like mean do combination of the two meaning that would try to well make living on the one hand doing some like mean some kind of day job or something like that and then on the other hand also trying to well do some studying or something like that and this probably was the let's let's say more radical decision which made because decided to actually do day job on the one hand and the other started studying on my own so started the studying on my own without enrolling in at the at the University again or something like that and was always interested in history so decided that should actually start reading up on history and in particular Middle Eastern history but why history in particular why not something like physics or something like that on the first hand like mean just dropped out of physics that was failure and didn't want to have to have to do anything with that failure anymore on the other hand the other problem was that was what if your study Physics you need lot of equipment Laboratories access to very expensive Laboratories and things like that so you cannot do something like that on your own but if you pursue an academic discipline like history if you don't do archeology or anything that requires field work or something like that you could do it in your study but why did that that you've you've got access to the resources to the books to material and to everything so decided to do history mean particular Middle Eastern history why not Middle Eastern history but generally like mean anything that broadly speaking let's say could be described as nearest term including ottoman history and that kind of thing why that well had several advantages was native speaker of Persian so knew one of the recorded languages at some Arabic that was another one of the languages that you could actually use for doing work of that kind well if were for example to do medieval year pin history on the one hand the field was completely saturated as saturated it's difficult to do anything in medieval European history anything new or an original these days in medieval European history on the one hand and on the other one would have needed to start learning Latin or something like that which was not really easy wouldn't have been feasible for me to do in span of like one year or two years or something like that and then acquire experience of the experience of having worked with manuscripts and that kind of thing because that takes time and we don't have like mean too many Latin manuscripts let's say it's not secret that we don't have too many Latin manuscripts in run or something like that although they are available online many of them of course so decided to actually do Middle Eastern history party because of this reason partly and that's actually something discovered later on thought well libraries around me were more likely to have books which had to do with militarian history but then also discovered that when it comes to Medieval minister in history almost anything you need in Arabic is available online and that was let's say great privilege to have to have access to the internet wouldn't have been able to do this back in the day but nothing now this time to the internet could access virtually any kind of primary source of material in Arabic required for my work so started doing that and everything was available online like mean when came to secondary literature it was very difficult like more difficult let's say so there are you know there are like mean ways of getting hold of material online and also had lots of friends who were affiliated with different universities had online access to material they could share with me and would sometimes ask them to to help me with the acquisition of certain e-books or articles or things like that and on the other hand there were also some friends who were so generous as to give failure of their time and scan some material which didn't have access to for me and send them to me but why did that like mean wouldn't do it all the time but if act like needed something that was absolutely indispensable to my work and then on the other hand also well couldn't access it online or something like that would ask very kind and generous friend to actually scan it for me or something like that and then there are also like mean well let's say less serves online groups and those kinds of things where people share this kind of material with each other so that was another venue for acquiring material which wasn't otherwise accessible to me so started doing this started reading on let's say pre-modern Middle Eastern history near Eastern history let's say and then eventually became interested in our Islamic history in particular why was that became let's say exposed to the work of Patricia Corona martinhein so the first time heard of the so-called revisionist or skeptical School of early Islamic history was was when heard of Patricia Corona Michael Martin Heinz God's caliph which is very interesting book and realized that well the story was hearing not only from God's cave then started looking up their profiles their Publications and everything and became more more more acquainted with and interested in the work of late Corona and realized that well the story was hearing was very different from the story that had actually heard in my history courses at school growing up in Muslim majority country like Iran so the story got there was the traditional story of course but then the story was hearing from these academics was totally different story which had very little to do with what had heard at school and from others and read in books myself for myself so this was really different and this was really truly interesting and realized that well this field is under on the at the cusp of revolution and that's not something you find every day here and there and and different disciplines so like mean you have Revolution every like I'm don't know on average every 100 Year years half century something like that but here we were at the custom Revolution and was like this is very interesting and want to be part of this scheme because there's still something left to do and another Islamic history it seems and before long before even knew before could even before even realized was spending most of my days reading up books and articles on early Islamic history and because the longest story short after while started forming some ideas of my own was reading too much and was like well if take this different angle to this problem or or well there is some evidence here in this manuscript for let's let's say later dating of this text or earlier dating of this text so what they do do with these ideas and by that point was already in touch with some specialists and talked to them about them they gave me encouragement they told me that my ideas sounded interesting and could try and write them down which did eventually and eventually some of the pieces put together from their point of view were good enough to be for me to try and submit them to to academic terms so eventually ended up submitting some of these material to academic journals for publication and got accepted so once twice three times four times and then started thinking to myself that well it's true that the peer review process has not Flawless it can't go wrong but if you get accepted from publication once twice three times in row then maybe you're up to something maybe you're not completely wrong maybe you're not insane or seeing up things imagining things so thought to myself that well then then maybe I'm up to something and seem to be better at doing history than was at being physics so maybe and like this so maybe can actually continue doing this so decided to continue doing that but then again what there was this problem of there being disconnect in my life between my day job was freelancing working as freelancer and making peanuts as freelancer well many of you you are probably familiar with that stage of one's life when one has to make and ends meet somehow and then well different problems y'all probably most of you are all too familiar with it so was making peanuts as freelancer on the one hand and then spending the what was left of my time doing research on my own and was like okay it would be much better if could actually get back mainstream Academia and and well get better access to resources be in touch with the community of like-minded fellows peers and on the other hand also if like mean and also if possible well have salary as an academic or something like that so that wouldn't have to like mean spend part of my time doing something different something didn't enjoy so well to cut long story short again eventually get ended up getting position as researcher completely candidate at Leiden University in the Netherlands but in the framework of project called keepers of the flame the transformation of this restaurant priesthood in late scene in the early Islamic times led by Professor abdiyong the professor of comparative religion and he was among others looking for PhD candidate to work on the early Islamic period part of the project to take care of the Islamic period part of the project and well he thought that would be good candidate for that position so he kindly actually agreed to take me in as student and enlightened unfortunately enough for me we've got set of exemptions criteria which stipulates that if you can prove that you are capable of conducting independent academic research some of the requirements for enrollment in PhD program may be waived for you so up showed my publication record and see if it's the dean and the faculty and they agreed to waive the requirements of an MA for enrollment and appreciative program for me and then ended up starting PhD at lighting which I'm still doing and hopefully like I'm gonna submit sometime soon in the coming months and and yeah here am now talking to you and one sort of in the let's say more stable situation but well at least academically let's say in terms of academic track and then on the other hand well ishtvan also wanted me to talk about my research interests so and how actually ended up doing what I'm doing what I'm doing now and what I'm going to present to you today so it's obvious that well I'm interested in Islamic Origins because like said started doing early Islamic history and this is how ended up working let's say on different aspects of early Islamic history didn't have particular let's say interest in in in one aspect of the history of this period or any period for that matter be expensive the other aspect so am as as interested let's say for example in economic history as am in political history and I'm as interested in intellectual history and history of ideas as am in let's say religious history so that sometimes puts me in unique position so sometimes have too many things to to let's say look at or take care of at the same time and sometimes the the amount of evidence the amount of stuff need to work with take care of is just unreality it becomes unwilled it becomes it becomes very difficult to take hold of but then on the upside sometimes you get well vision of things which gives you better idea sometimes of what was going on so was talking to colleague several months ago about for example what we can find in the Quran which information which we can find in the Quran which has get to do with the state building and it was scholar of the Quran and it was like well I'm not really qualified to comment on issues of of state building but they take your word friend and you would be qualified to do this because you're both interested in the state building on the one hand and in chronic studies on the other and then we've got the scholars work of course on State Building in early Islam but they are not as much interested in studying the Quran and the study of the Quran like mean they they're historians of release long primarily rather than the scholars of the Quran so not having the combination of the two Specialties sometimes puts you at disadvantage here but my brother interest sometimes gives me an age theorem although it sometimes gives me different disadvantages me as well because it's sometimes very difficult to do let's say be in command of all the material and be on top of everything all the time so sometimes hear about like mean piece of evidence hadn't heard before and was supposed to know about it but then realized that okay forgot about this or missed this and start feeling embarrassed and that kind of thing but there are upsides that come with this approach as well and whether the other interests as well and and then yes let's say started with crown actually the first article got accepted for publication and the first one which also the first one which appeared in print was an article on the Quran and particular chronic word we are gonna see it later today actually in my presentation as well which already meant gentle based on corpus linguistic analysis of the Corpus of early Traditions so and in addition to that then did some stuff on some eschatological traditions which pertain to early Islamic history contained then two hypothesis pertaining to our Islamic history so in order to actually figure out what was going on in them had to let's say go through lot of sources for the political history of the earliest stages of the second what we call the second Muslim Civil War and the years between 680 to 692 to see what was actually going on to Thailand let's say identify the the the historical references in the event to prophetic part of of this text had and then what ended up with with lot of evidence for other things as well started taking notes and then the notes actually constituted the material for for monograph project they became like mean started writing up on it it became too large over 100 pages and people told me that even like mean at that length some parts needed further further elaboration so decided to turn it into monograph so this is one monograph in the works now on the second Muslim Civil War which I'm working on but haven't been working on for while now I've got more urgent issues demanding my attention including my PhD diss rotation but I'm gonna get back to it afterwards and then then like mean started like taking an interest in other issues as well became more interested in epigraphic evidence and numismatics so started doing everything numismatic as part of this project realized that there was lot of there were lot of coins in the name of Abdullah figure many of you are probably very familiar with but dating to before the date according to literary sources when he was he received the Pledge of Allegiance skin so the coins dated to the reign of the previous caliph and was like okay and then add literary evidence for some of these activities prior to the to his own appointment the caliph as well and thought it would be let's say not appropriate to quickly dismiss the numismatic evidence and the light of the literary efforts so but looked at the numismatic literature realized that most new mathematists had studied these specimens these extent specimens in isolation and and once taken together the totality of the evidence actually pointed to to some action minting of coinage in the name of IBN zubair in southern Iran in this period and the reign of the calipers so already then ignizable had followers in Iran who were who were many coins in his name and then started putting together the evidence and and the poses are to teach myself how how to read the inscriptions on absinian coins and metal operation and then that's how actually became more involved with numismatics and then on the other hand realized that there was lot of evidence in the form of inscriptions epigraphic material and then started working with them as well and then more recently papaya as well have become more interested in Papyrus I'm at editing Papyrus fragment I'm going to show photo of you photo of it to you later later today and some other similar issues but yes think how came to actually this specific topic would be best actually described in the process of my talk so think it's it's enough here and can stop right here and then ishtvan well thank you thank you very much it was think immensely interesting mean just say two things before before you continue with the actual talk one is something that forgot and and it's that today is World mental health day and that's why am wearing yellow because that and and that was also think really good day to to start this sort of conversation this this sort of beginning for the match list that that's one thing the other is just one to summarize somehow in in one point some something from from your trajectory but they have some someone who studied for ba in physics didn't complete the be so nobody not only no any but no ba and and it is completing his spirit and he's at the level where his publication record is would be would be very good for for much higher academic position already so so it's well God's ways are really unpredictable that's this thing about my education as well because although didn't finish my my bachelor's degree in physics learned lot of in physics learned lot in those four years so also took courses well audited courses and the history and philosophy of science so learned lot like I've been about Humanities the bother issues that humanists were interested in as part of like those courses and also like was always interested in in deeper questions which had to do with the epistemology of knowledge and those kinds of issues when studying physics so it wasn't like was complete stranger to the humanities or something of the sort but got very good education despite the fact that failed in courses and everything constantly although so also actually studying from another studying another field can give you immense advantages to to do something original because that that helps our interdisciplinary education so if you manage to to bridge the gap between what is required in one field and and have something something different already that that that's extremely extremely useful actually my own father he was pharmacist qualified as pharmacist but he wrote history about literature so mostly mostly Western literature so these things these things happened and yeah mainly would mute myself again okay to the presentation yeah okay so let me start sharing my screen first let me see okay so let's start the topic I'm going to talk today as you can see is universal Empires superstitionist ideology at the origins of Islam so Islam has very much super sessionist religion well let's say what we what we know as Islam is very much super sessionist religion and in the sense that it purports to have not obligated but rather superseded the previous two abrahamic monotheistic dispensations of Judaism and Christianity meaning according to virtually all classical Muslim authors thinkers theology according to the absolute majority of them if not all of them it's not acceptable from one to continue adhering to Judaism or Christianity after the coming of Islam so Jews and Christians are supposed to convert to Islam after the coming of Islam otherwise they are basically no different from infidels from from polytheists or adherents of any other non-defined religion paganism whatever so this is what mean by supersession and one like said classical Islam is very much superstitionist and from that point of view from that perspective and this Superstition is overtone and Islam as very much visible from the very early period so what you see here is gold coin minted by the caliph in the year 79 which is almost towards the end of the the 7th Century CE and it's got some superstitionist declarations on it Muhammad is the messenger of God and he sent him with the guidance and the True Religion so as to make it triumphant over all other religion so according to this statement issued on the coinage of the early Islamic empire Islam is supposed to supplant all the other religions and one you do see pieces of evidence of of this nature from very early period on and for example there's another let's say Monumental building from the reign of the same kid with Abdul Malik the Doom of the Rock in Jerusalem and its inscriptions contain the same verses contain the same first together with some polemics level verses directed against Christianity so you see it here already in the year 72 which is 692 yes 692 or 91 691 and yet what this is also if you're interested in reading it this is one of the specimens of very supersessionist expression of or or articulation of the mission of of the Prophet Muhammad from an anonymous apologetic practice dating to the 8th century and evidence like this proliferates from from the end of towards the end of the first Islamic century and the beginning of the the second century we already have lot of evidence for super sessionist claims being made on behalf of Islam by Muslims but there is also some evidence that points to different tendency in rather earlier period for example we have the second by by pseudonymous conical or rather let's say it's not pseudonymous Chronicle but rather conical mistakenly attribute to CBS of Armenia and it was completed around the year 660 or shortly thereafter and it states that well let me read it to you based on assumption's adults translation he meaning Muhammad said with an oath God promised us land to Abraham and see that for him forever an important about as he promised during that time while he loved Israel but now you are the sons of Abraham and God is accomplishing his promise to Abraham and seed for you love sincerely only the god of Abraham and go and sees your land which God gave to your father Abraham no one will be able to resist you in battle because God is with you so well this is basically what's the serious is saying is that Islam originally was was mission or or The Message of Islam was intended for ishmaelites the children of Abraham through Ishmael and they were supposed to supplant these Ray lights basically so Israel has fallen from divine grace they are no longer God's elect and because of that because of their sins because of their sinful activities sinful acts they are no longer supposed to be the inheritance of Abraham's Heritage either so Abraham's Heritage including the holy land is now yours the schmelites this is very interesting and it was only in 1977 that two Scholars between Corona Michael cook up statements like this to come up with different theory of Islamic origins in this book and this very let's say tendentious and controversial book hagarism the making of the Islamic world so they postulated that they're the Muslims or rather the The Chronic movement was initially what they called gedia hagarine movement which Allied themselves and they Allied themselves that with group of Jews to conquer the holy land to reclaim the Holy Land and well of course many aspects of the book received lot of pushback on the part of other Scholars and over the course of time and even the two authors of the book might completely Corona distant stem cells with many aspects of the claims they made in this book yet later on we had some other publications of different nature not not exactly the same totally different actually but there's connection yeah so basically according to comment on cook early Islam was an ethno-religious movement meant for ishmaelites or rather hagrins as they call it from from ishmael's the name of ishmael's mother Hager and it was an ethnic religious movement an ethnic movement but also religious movement and that it was only afterwards that Aslam became Universalist movement they don't say much about so far as can remember they don't say much about the transition to Universal let's say but that's the idea that only classical Islam it's the classical Islam that that as we know it that that is Universalist and The Chronic movement was initially an ethno Village and then many years later in 2010 Fred Donner came up with different thesis from his point of view or Islam emerged as quiet the opposite not as an ethnic religious movement but as quite the Universalist movement it was supposed to be or The Chronic cross message was supposed to be for for everyone basically Muhammad's community of ishmaelites well he doesn't talk about ishmaelites in the book that's my word right Muhammad's community of Arabs or whatever you want to call it as well as Jews and Christians and they all together were supposed to constitute an ecumenical community of believers again fadana's thesis proved to be very contentious as well for obvious reasons the chief amongst which being that the Khan contains many polemical exchanges of Judaism and Christianity even where there are no like there are no direct attacks on particular Christian Jewish doctrines like the doctrine of the Trinity there are statements which intimate that the quran's messenger the quran's enunciator is not very happy with Christian and Jewish practice not belief so how are we to take take account of that to take that into account the owner does not explain and then slightly later in 2019 mohsen goddessi published an seventh Page Long article or something like that very long article almost monograph on the same subject again the nature of the early Islamic movement the rather The Chronic movement in which he claimed that there's eventually leaves the door open for some modicum of universalism but doesn't elaborate on that and the main argument is that the Quran considered Muhammad's Community to be the descendants of Ishmael and as ishmaelites the quran's message was intended intended for them and solely from them so again back to the ethno religious thesis and very different iteration than corners and and Cooks but again Islam is made out to be national religious movement in this publication so we've got two main competing Theses about the origins of Islam did it emerge as an ethno religion or did it emerge as as Universalist movement and effort emerges an ethno religion so what do we do about whether it's engagement with Judaism and Christianity so how do we take account take that into account if it's only meant fresh made lights or or hagarines or Arabs or whoever then why is so much interest in in talking to Jews and Christians to reaching out to Jews and Christians and if it's the other way around if it's Universalist message why we've got statements to the effect that well for example different verses we are going to see them in in due course in this presentation different verses which state that Muhammad is God's messenger rather the quran's messenger whoever that may be believe believe it's Muhammad but some people but anyhow that's topic for another day the Khan's Messenger as as actually said to have been messenger to to to particular ethnic community so why do we get statements like that and how we reconcile these two different pictures that we get from the Quran and which has led different Scholars to different and vastly or diametrically opposed conclusions so let's start with the notion of of Nation Nation this sense of notes an ethnic Community or in Arabic and the Quran so every woman every Community ethnic Community every nazio has got messenger it's only the Quran so there are some verses here there's messenger for each Nation very clearly indicated that each nation has got messenger of its own content 47. indeed we have appointed the messenger in each Nation so Nations and Prophets come hand in hand basically for indeed before you we sent Messengers to Nations the implication is that Muhammad is also messenger sent to specific Nation the implication of this verse every nation has tried to seize hold of their messenger again affirmation that's better messenger whom they ever started to seize hold of and so much so this entanglement of of prophet root or descending of Messengers with Nations is so strong that even the division of humanity into different ethnic communities as intimated to have been an effect byproduct of God sending different prophets different groups the people were one nation then God sent the prophets to bring Good Tidings on War so and these nations and their Messengers come in succession we just sent you an to nation before which nations had passed so Muhammad is again here's it's implied that Muhammad is sent one specific Nation do you not take heed how many generation come we blotted out before you on account of their sins and raised up another generation in their Leo we then sent our Messengers succession well whenever the nation's nation's profit went to them they rejected him we gave Moses the book and we sent Messengers one after the other after him so Messengers and Nations come to succession and each nation has got one messenger out there and the quran's message here it is explicit your most explicitly stated that is intended for one particular nation which hasn't been recipient of divine Communications here to form this is scripture we revealed lest you see the scripture had only been been sent to two groups obviously Jews and Christians are intended here type attain before us and we were ignorant of their teachings and then here we have more evidence as to who this nation might have been so the second verse you see quoted here as verse which is ascribed or statement which is described to Abraham and Schmid they they make the statement they make this prayer out of this prayer according to the Quran while raising the foundations of the meccan sanctuary the Kaaba raised from our progeny nation submitted to you our Lord and send messenger to them from among themselves to read your signs to them and teach them the book and the wisdom and purify them and then later on in different chronic verse we have the statement he is the one who sent messenger to the Gentiles or mean meaning members of this ummah from among themselves to read the science to them and purify them and teach them the book and the wisdom so obviously the quran's messenger who is referred to in the in the verse above as the Fulfillment of the prayer that Abraham make for God to send messenger to their project among their own ranks so Muhammad's Community are ishmaelites the descendants of abrahamik and Muhammad as prophet sent ismailites specifically foreign is meant to be messaged the quran's message is sent to be exclusive exclusively meant for people meaning ishmaelites was not received any Divine messages before before this but then again we find contradictory statements what seems to be contradictory statements in the Quran those who follow the messenger the Gentile prophet and Nabi and al-umi who they find mentioned with them in the Torah and the gospel say people am the Messenger of God to you all like and then the Quran also legislates for Jews and Christians and other orders them to avoid certain things or do certain things and then again the Torah and the gospel are still binding the scriptures from the point of the view of the Quran despite the fact that they have accrued themselves some satanic interpolations so there are some whole spare copy satanic interpolations whatever you want to call them and the Torah on the gospel so the Torah from the point of view of the Quran is the the scripture that God sent to Moses and for Israelites and the gospel and the singular as book as scripture that God sent Jesus and these are still binding in scriptures so what can we conclude from this well apparently the Ambit of Muhammad's message all of sudden includes Jews and Christians as well the Quran legislates for Jews and Christians and but at the same time the Quran never claims to have abrogated the Torah and the gospel so the message of the Quran seems to be Universalist or have become universalists in the course of time and the course of is met its Messengers career if we assume with this caveat that if we assume that told the Quran and its totality goes back to one enunciator one final enunciator if if so these two scriptures are still binding so it seems that the Ambit of the message has become Universal by this point at certain point in time but it is it does not claim to have to proceeded the previous dispensations to Judaism and Christianity because the Torah and the gospel are still binding of scriptures they can be consulted they can be read and Jews and Christians are free to to practice or rather let's say to keep calling themselves Jews and Christians meaning that no formal conversion no formal giving up of their religions required of them if you're Jew you're you're not supposed to stop calling yourself Jew and start calling yourself something new for example believer Muslim or something like that so the only thing the only demand that the Khan makes of Jews and Christians is to give up the false Roots the aberration that has accrued into their religions and the course of time and start practicing the original pure and authentic form of their own religions so basically the message that the cons bring in French made lights for whom it it counts as new religion is no different from the message that Jews and Christians have received before the ishmaelites only that Jews and Christians have aberrated in the course of time and the it's the cons Duty as the duty of the quran's messenger to bring them back the original form of their of their religions in other words you have universal message here but non-supercessionist it's Universal in so far so far as it includes everyone within the the the the Horizon of the quran's thought World it includes ishmaelites Jews and Christians but it's it's not super sessionist and so far as as much as it does not claim to have superseded Judaism and Christianity and the Torah of the Gospel are neither abrogated nor supersede they can still be consulted as binding as scriptures and and Jesus here is just another according to the Quran it's just another Israelite prophet and his if in the Israeli tradition of of Prophecy and so is Muhammad and the Jews have committed some sins over the course of time for example the the worship of the golden calf and was Jesus's duty to and they've been punished by the imposition of additional and very stringent dietary restrictions it was Jesus's duty to give them an opportunity Jesus was sent to the Israel to the Israelites to give them an opportunity to repent for their sins by believing in him and then those additional setup dietary restrictions would be relaxed for them but and of those Jews who actually fail to follow Jesus for him to make use of use of that first opportunity they've now got Muhammad who's now got that Duty from them so he's also fulfilling different functions produced here so as junior where you you believed in Muhammad the additional set of dietary restrictions of the second legislation and and the Old Testament would be abrogated for you because you're no longer you have basically executed for the sense committed by these great lights and the episode of the worship of the golden calf the killing of the prophets and and so on and so forth and also Muhammad as true Prophet but this is long story so let's leave it for another day I'm just going to refer to it briefly the Muhammad is also has got different function to fulfill and that's to remove the satanic identify for Jews and Christians the satanic interpolations into the Torah and the gospel and remove them from them foreign and this is what we have here by the time of the closure of The Chronic text to further additions so by this point whenever in time it might have been that's again another issue for another different day Judaism and Chris sorry the Quran is no longer open to further additions and by this stage and the development of formative Islam Islam Islam is Universalist simultaneously rather oddly simultaneously Universalist dispensation but also simultaneously an ethnic religion fresh main lights it's national religion for Jews and Christians it's universal message for everyone it's universal message which also also has get functions to fulfill for Jews and Christians but it's not superstitionist it doesn't claim to have superseded Judaism Christianity you could still call yourself Jew well maybe from the perspective of your former religionist you no longer candidates Jewish or as Christian after doing all the things that the Quran required requires of you but still from the point of view of the Quran that's not giving up on your old religion the Quran has brought back the original form of your own religion for you and you can continue claiming to be Jewish or Christian while also believing in Muhammad as just another Prophet despite him being gentile in the Israelite tradition of Prophecy as well as by following his Commandments concerning false practices that have accorded to Judaism and Christianity so this is what we get from the Quran by the time the quranic takes this close to further additions and and elaborations and yet the class I'm classical Islam as we know it is by and large super sessions much more superstitionists than the tradition is much more Super sessions than what we get from the Quran so when that did that take place so it's let me directly digress little bit so this book was published in 1994 if I'm not mistaken by khalidia Blankenship the end of the Jihad estate and the collapse of the umines in which Blankenship argued that the United States was was Jihad estate which was constantly on war footing with the aim of constant Warfare until there was no further Wars to be fought in other words until Islam had taken over the Islamic State had taken over the whole world but well he did not produce much evidence for this argument he just used this as starting assumption and was taken task by many of his reviewers from this yet think it was up to something we do have some evidence most of it indirect the the the early Islamic State had Universalist aspirations for example in early compositions like the guitar the world the whole of the world is divided into the Abode of Islam Regal Islam and the Abode of war or Daryl harp the term donkoff is only the Abode of infidelity or the amount of disbelief is only attested in later periods it's not tested in this early period so this in other words in this earlier period koof has not granted official recognition or the land of cuff is not granted official recognition you are not supposed to have anything as as land where cuff is supposed to be allowed to exist you only have the land of Islam the word of Islam and the ubudu war so the the territories under the control of the caliphate are the Abode of Islam obviously and the rest of the world the parts of the world where which are not under colorful control which are not under Islamic control fair game for for waging Warsaw so those are territories that are to be yet to be conquered and bought under the the authority of the Muslims so this is one indication that the mindset was one of world conquests and and and the setting up of universal Empire and then we've got eschatological Traditions as well this is very widely tested tradition and different form forms and the widely varying variants but these are the elements in which all the variants more or less agree and have feeling haven't yet done yet finished doing the it's not met analysis but have feeling that it actually goes back to to let's say something around first half of the second century Syria group of my community will continue to be on the right Victorious of all people no adversary will be able to do harm to them until God's Affair meaning the iskcon comes to them while they are still in that Victorious State they will be in Syria so this is statement attributed to the prophet group of the prophets Community meaning Muslims group of Muslims will continue to be victorious defeating everyone until the end of time so this is the idea of an eschatological Empire that we have an eschatologically Universal world and Par expressed in this tradition and it is not only that Empire that is going to be Victorious over everyone but also that group of Muhammad's Community who are in the rights meaning just one group of Muslims not only Muslims in general well here Islam has not only superseded Judaism on Christianity but you also have further subdivisions within the community itself but think the most important piece of evidence that points to transition from non-supercessionism to superstitionism is to be found under physical practices of the Islamic empire so we don't have much time so I'm going to be brief and cannot present you with all the evidence pertaining to the fiscal history of the early Islamic empire so I'd like to ask you to take this for granted and for me to take to take my word for this until such other time as we can have separate discussion over these issues so after the conquests when the Muslims burst out the Muslim armies burst out of Arabia started Conquering the whole of the what is now the Middle East and some other territories in North Africa and all over the place of course obviously as we know from the pyrite from other pieces of evidence they started taxing the conquered populations usually according to his classical Islamic Orthodoxy and according to Chronicles the taxation was the taxes were paid by non-muslims to the Muslims but what one could also think differently about the issue that actually it wasn't non-muslims paying taxes to Muslims but it just so happens that the conquerors were all what we now call Muslims they were part of the same movement the same community that we now call Islam it was actually conquerors taxing the Concord and then after while we had conversion people converting to Islam and demanding the same rights as the old believers including enjoyment enjoyment from the benefits of the conquest so the conquerors collected taxes the taxes went towards the payment of his time stipends to the conquerors and then you got comforts converting to Islam and then wanting to also benefit from the these Conquest to Athens and this caused lot of problems and this is actually what they tested in the in the historical sources and the Chronicles dating pertaining to to to my history that there was lot of social contention people converting to Islam moving to Garrison towns one thing demanding to join the ranks of the conquest Society but failing to do so because the United States was unable to accommodate all of them and then what happened as result eventually different conceptualization of how things were supposed to work emerged and the first vestiges of this different conceptualization can be seen in what Scholars knows the fiscal of the script of the caliph so what this is also story for different day for another day as but believe this this text is actually an authentic declaration and it edict promulgated by the key to Umar the second and in it he tries to address these social social issues so there were lots of people converting to Islam wanting to join the conquest Society but they were turned away by the conquerors but might by might State officials because the United States was unable to to accommodate all of them and they were causing lot of headache for everyone because of that because they still insisted on being being accommodated so another thing that I'd like to to ask you to accept from me for the time being this is also rather well assistant but here and there understand their literature that Hijra in this context means movement togethers and talents and being allowed to settle there and given the evidence of the papaya and also the older stratum of legal of legal literature and Taxation taxation manuals Hijra sorry the ones who make the Hijra the ones who settle in the Garrison towns are to be entitled to to revenues of the conquest to the tax revenues so they are to receive stipends Hijra makes entitles you to to receiving the stipends so what does the caliph say here so this is one of the one of the things you see it in the in the bottom line as well that the doors of Hijra settling in Garrison towns meaning certain Garrison towns are to be opened up for for the Islam the people who have converted to Islam or the Muslims in general the Muslim Community in general so there were two category this presumes that there were two categories of Muslims one group who were enjoying from the benefits of the rich the other group obviously given the evidence of The Chronicles the converts the new converts the neophytes who were denied these benefits so Umar is reconceptualizing the the whole system so now instead of no instead of just settlers or conquerors benefit benefiting from the tax revenues anyone converting to Islam was allowed to move to to the Garrison towns and benefit from the tax revenues of of the conquests anyone who converted to Islam so from here on we have from this point on we have new system starting to to establish foothold so again another story for another day Umar II's reform eventually eventually failed and but but the the same mindset eventually took over at the end of the might period after the fall of the umaya it's been the best took power so we have the different system establishing of trying to establish foretold here According to which it's not movement or and settling movement to unsettling Garrison towns that in Pathways one to to tax revenues to benefit from tax revenues but rather it's it's conversion to Islam that that entitles you depending from those revenues so there's star contest here being being made between the the let's see legal and fiscal status of Muslims non-muslims and eventually there's complete transition to system at least on the theoretical level complete transition to system whereby Muslims are supposed to be the benefit Fishers the entire Islamic community are it's supposed to be the beneficiaries of the conquest revenues and the ones who are supposed to uphold the system by paying taxes are the non-muslims and this is how further differentiation between the two groups materializes and think this is the point where we can by this point we can definitely confidently claim that religious boundaries have become more and more concrete between between different religious groups here but this point and when we see transition super sessions so this is from the year around the year 100 this tradition is also from like mean the early 2nd Century and Abu Yusuf as just one generation after the Umayyads so this all points to Major developments in the later first and early second century and this must have been when the transition from non-supercessionism to supersessionism actually took place and what I'd like to present you that what where we started the coin bearing us to processionist claim triumphalus claim that Muhammad's message is supposed to supplant all other religion so thank you very much for your attention foreign yes we before switching off the recording and starting the the question session would just just say two things one is still referring to what you said at the beginning that's that's one of the reason you you you started exploring this field is that there are still so many things to discover and think this is really something extremely exciting in our in our field that there are so many things to to discover and and so many things it is to say say about what have been such fundamental things that that about which you have been talking so that's one thing and then the other thing is that next week we will also have merge list and I'd like to advertise it right now and it will be rahim's much less which will be on the on the source fulfillment in Nursery hospitals the wafer the surgeon at the banquet so had major work by nassery and also well interested integrates relevance for for us all up up to today so that we we are looking forward to another exciting talk and now will stop the recording and we will start the discussion think